An Interview with Former LNC Chair Bill Redpath (Part 2) – Being Libertarian
Bill Redpath was Chair of the LNC from 2006-2010. He was Chairman of the LPs Ballot Access committee from 1992-1996 and under his direction the Libertarian Party became the first non-major party to achieve ballot access in all 50 states plus DC in two-consecutive elections in United States history. He has been a six-time candidate for the party and today serves as Treasurer for FairVote.
Jacob Linker: If you look at the 2016 campaign on the whole, its odd at just how much of an issues-free campaign it was. Johnson and Weld seemed more inclined to talk about the real issues but nobody else really was interested, theyd rather take their sides like they usually do.
Bill Redpath: Yeah thats my bias, Ill admit. Somebody has to address policy here. It cant just be waving the flag chanting USA, USA at rallies thats a recipe for falling behind in this world among nations. You know what, heres the thing: CATO just came out with the index of Human Freedom? Somebody needs to talk about point blank we are losing our freedoms in this nation. The index of Human Freedom came out a few weeks ago, the United States is ranked number 23. I swear there was not coverage of this that I could see in the major press. You would think that would be news and be something that would concern the American people, but as I said theyre too busy waving the flag and chanting USA, USA. So somebody has to address the public policy issues and if its up to the Libertarian Party to do that then so be it.
Jacob: And you can point out that in many indices the US has been declining in economic freedom as well under Bush and Obama.
Bill: Yeah well economic freedom as well. Our freedoms are melting away in this nation and frankly the body politic, the general public, theyre pretty much unconcerned about it.
Jacob: If you look at it, it just seems people are more inclined towards hating their political opponents that looking at the common issues that are affecting everybody. Its less about solving problems than winning.
Bill: Absolutely, thats absolutely right and I have seen such tribalism frankly among people I know and respect and love in this 2016 campaign who didnt vote for Gary Johnson, not that you necessarily have to be a tribalist, but youre right, its like Team Red vs Team Blue and that rules everything. In the Republican Party, heres the thing, I often hear that, well, when the chips are down and things are really tough, someday the American people will reach for us, reach for a libertarian to solve their problems. Well, you know, they had that chance in 2016 and they had it before. They could have elected Ron Paul as president in earlier elections. And they could have nominated Rand Paul for the Republican nomination and they could have voted for Gary Johnson in the general election, but they didnt do that. They elected an authoritarian, not a libertarian.
Jacob: Do you think theres much more that libertarians as a movement could do to run better campaigns, better sell the message to moderate types, and generally just succeed more? You often hear these numbers like 11% of Americans are libertarian according to Pew or 27% of Americans are libertarian according to 538 and yet our numbers just dont approach that.
Bill: I dont know what more we could do. I have a great friend in the Libertarian Party who complains that our problem is all in marketing and messaging. I dont buy that. Its the election system and, lets just face it, were a political minority. Im very skeptical of these claims that, oh the American people are really libertarian.
Charles Peralo: They arent. Not at all.
Bill: I know! I wouldnt say not at all theyre not much libertarian but the devil is in the details and libertarians, if youre talking big picture things and themes people will sign on to that, but when they get into the details its what, youre going to privatize Social Security or youre going to change Medicare, Im not signing up for that. So theres just a disconnect with a person saying keep government out of my Medicare. What? That shows such an incredible disconnect in thinking and understanding so at the end of the day I think were doing all we can and like I said, the Ron Paul and Rand Paul and Gary Johnson options are there and the American people chose Donald Trump. What does that say?
Charles: Shifting it a little bit more, you were the Chairman of the Party from 2006 to 2010. During that election you had 2008. In 2008 we had the Barr-Root Campaign. Now, Im a pragmatist. I dont really look for the anarchist, dont really look for the radical, Ive been criticized pretty heavily for saying the Libertarian Party should explore some other options. But I look at Bob Barr, he wrote DOMA, wrote the Patriot Act, had a very neo-conish record and I look at his running mate Wayne Allen Root who, and it may be harsh to say this, but I think he was just trying to sell his own little books there, and hes willing to play with whatever pariah movement gives him a shot. Do you have any problems with that ticket or 2008 as a whole?
Bill: No I think that given the knowledge at the time first of all I want to say this, I think Bob Barr did change and change for the betterI really think Bob Barr had rethought some things and became a changed person from how he was earlier with DOMA and all of that. And I think Bob Barr also, I came to think of Bob frankly as a personal friend. Bob Barr made a lot of personal sacrifices that people dont know about, or dont think about. There are sacrifices made to be a Libertarian Party Candidate and Bob made a lot of them and I think Bob represented the Libertarian Party well in the 2008 campaign. Now hes no longer involved in the LP but hes welcome back any time he wants to come back. And frankly, the same for Wayne Root even though I do mind his support for Donald Trump this campaign. I think he is a good man. I think hes interested, Wayne is selling Wayne and its his right to do so, he has taken some positions that I disagree with, some that make me cringe, and his enthusiasm for Donald Trump frankly was disappointing. But, these things happen. Unfortunately, because of the election system, its very hard to grow candidates in our own party who are recognized by the American voters and so this is an unfortunate byproduct people coming from outside the party to within the party, sometimes they stay sometimes they leave, but its a byproduct of the voting system that we cant grow our own politicians from the lower levels up.
Jacob: Looking at 2008 the convention picked Bob Barr for its nominee when former Senator Mike Gravel tried for the nomination as well after failing in the Democratic race. He seems like he would have been a much stronger candidate, having held a higher office, being a strong anti-war candidate, and having greater fundraising capacity given the endorsement of Ralph Nader who went on to run in 2008 and raise more money than Bob Barr did. Do you think compared to a more conservative guy and not as big of a name like Bob Barr that Mike Gravel, or a Gravel-Barr ticket, could have been better? Meanwhile Barr might just be better running for the LP in a House race like the special election coming up in Georgia.
Bill: I liked Mike, Im not surprised that he didnt get the nomination, but to have a former United States Senator come over I thought is, I didnt agree with everything he had to say, but again I thought he was a good man and a person of good will who added something to the LP and the presidential nomination process in 2008. And Im sorry, your other question was?
Jacob: I was talking about a recent Reason article about the Special Election for Congressman, Prices Senate Seat in Georgia. Its of the same sort of New South Demographic that Robert Sarvis in Virginia polled double digits in and seems like a strong possibility for the Libertarians, with Bob Barr a former Georgia Congressman seeming like a good potential candidate.
Bill: It depends on his positions. I mean if he took highly libertarian positions that would be great. I havent talked to Bob in years now and it depends on the positions that he would take. But to have an actual libertarian elected to the US House of Representatives would be huge for the Libertarian Party. Now, I havent read the article, I know of the article. Its gonna be an uphill battle. Its not impossible, my sense is itd be very much a long shot. We definitely need to take advantage of special elections because it is very, very difficult for our candidates in Georgia because under the laws there we have statewide ballot status but for US House and State Legislature we dont have ballot status and it is very difficult to get on for regular elections but it is easier to get on for special elections and we should take advantage of this opportunity and run the best candidate possible who is willing and able to run.
Jacob: So youre not that sure about Barr as the candidate and you dont think the race there is that big an opportunity for us.
Bill: Just to get in there would be a good thing. Again I dont think we have a realistic chance at winning but I think we ought to run candidates for every election. It is very difficult for us. We had a situation here in Virginia where Gerry Connally ran unopposed there was a fellow who was running and he would have made the ballot except he became quite ill in May and dropped out of the race because he was diagnosed with an illness from which he would recover but it was going to take a while and he just said he couldnt run.
Charles: I mean when it comes to candidates in the LP I think its kind of a weird situation. You are correct, we need more people to run for office. I go to New York to vote, and when I see Gary Johnson and Alex Merced and Senate and Presidential candidates, but then I look at the rest of the ballot and we have no one on Congress, nobody on state senate, nobody for anything else, that does create a problem where I can see why more people vote for one of the other main parties. But one issue Ive had is just that some of the Libertarian Party candidates arent very strong and they tend to say things or do thing during the campaign that almost make me wish they wouldnt run or I wish we could have John Doe run instead. How do actually have a lot of candidates run but make sure theyre the right candidates?
Bill: Well its ultimately up to the various state organizations and their rules. There are rules to nominations and if somebody gets the nomination theyre the nominee. I would say Id like to go back for a second. I highly recommend people go to reason.tv and watch a 12 minute interview done recently with Richard Winger and he talks about ballot access. Its getting easier to run for president, but its been getting harder to run for US House of Representatives. There are states where its 3,000 or more signatures. In Virginia its 1,000 valid signatures to get on the ballot for US House of Representatives. In Georgia its 5%. It would take something like over 12,000 valid signatures in Georgia to get on the ballot for a general election US House of Representatives race. Theres only been one case of somebody doing that in the last 70 or 80 years. In Illinois its something like 3,000 valid signatures. Its tough. I agree that the Libertarian Party should run as many non-embarrassing candidates for office as possible, but its tough. Its up to the state parties to pick the candidates, but I agree that when you have your candidate at a forum being laughed at, not just disagreed with but laughed at, its bad.
Charles: Id also just say keep your clothes on, unlike one little incident from Orlando with a very good pal of the radical caucus. I was in Bill Welds delegation at the convention and I was just looking at the face he was giving as that was happening. I was just saying what did I get myself into?
Bill: That was an extremely unfortunate incident and it was one of these things where I just was sort of frozen. I could have and should have run up on the stage and stopped the guy. Jim Lark who was chairing at the time had actually stepped out of the hall for a moment and was coming back in and had heard what happened. That was unfortunate. There were plenty of people there but it was surreal you couldnt believe what was happening. You were just sort of frozen because of disbelief as to what was going on. Mr. Weeks definitely damaged the credibility of the Libertarian Party by doing that and he should be censured for what he did.
Charles: It was kind of a sad thing to happen but, oh well, weve progressed on from it. I find it sad that in this point in time James Weeks I think would have a better chance at winning a Libertarian Party popularity contest than Bill Weld sadly. Im a big supporter of Bill but sadly thats just the truth at this point.
Bill: Well, perhaps I dont know.
Jacob: Changing the subject back to FairVote and electoral reform, how are you feeling going forward? Where do you think the next success is going to be? California has its referendum system which makes ballot measures relatively easy and the legislature actually passed ranked-choice last year only to get blocked by Jerry Brown. Minnesota and Oregon also have some county-level referendums on the process.
Bill: I really dont know whats coming up next in that regard. I think California is a possibility. I dont know where things stand in Minnesota, but FairVote Minnesota is probably the strongest state organization affiliated with FairVote and then I just found out yesterday about Massachusetts where there apparently is an effort. And I think Massachusetts, I could be wrong, but I thought Richard Winger once told me on a per capita basis Massachusetts may have the easiest initiative laws to get something on the ballot. I think things are slowly but surely, and things could snowball if we get a few states and a whole bunch more counties on board with ranked choice voting. But then at some point its going to have to progress to something different. One other thing, theres all this talk now about redistricting reform. Obama brought this up in his farewell speech the other night weve got to draw districts differently. We need to make them multi-member districts and thats something people need to talk about. We could have districts with five representatives instead of one representative and that would make things a lot more interesting and give people a lot more effective choices. I also hope the Libertarian Party gets more involved in electoral reform and the electoral reform movement in the United States. There is a reticence among libertarians, I have a good friend who thinks the Libertarian Party should not be involved in any electoral reform moves. I dont understand that. I dont understand why someone would be involved in a minor party in the United States and not be in favor of proportional representation and an initiative system. It would make for a better democracy in my opinion and there is nothing wrong with supporting reforms that would help your organization. Electoral reform could be the key to making the Libertarian Party a real presence in US politics.
Charles: So, just closing this up, in 2020 we have Donald Trump running for reelection. Donald Trump has a 37% approval rating
Bill: Maybe [hell run], but lets accept that premise.
Charles: Lets say theres a good chance. Maybe not. The Democrats have a very weak field. It seems like Corey Booker is trying to be like the good nice moderate, Liz Warren is trying to be Bernie Sanders, Bernie Sanders is trying to also consider running assuming he lives that long, it looks like the Democrats have a week field and the Republicans might have a candidate with a 25% approval rating whose ego wont let him not run. The Libertarian Party, weve managed to get 3% this time, I think with a stronger campaign we could have broken 10% or hey if we made the debates we could have possibly pulled the biggest upset in history do you think in 2020 were gonna have a chance at doing this again and could you picture any candidate being able to break the mold, get past the 15%, get into the debates, raise 50-100 million dollars, and maybe win this thing?
Bill: Well I dont know. I know of nobody who has said theyre seeking the 2020 presidential nomination. With respect to Donald Trump I would be very surprised if he isnt primaried in his own party in 2020 and that assumes hes not impeached and removed from office before then. Im serious, I think that things are so crazy in what weve seen here that I wouldnt be surprised if Donald Trump is impeached from office before the end of his first term. Well see what goes there. If hes got a 20-25% approval rating, you can bet your bottom dollar hes gonna get primaried in the Republican Party.
Charles: Im positive hell get primaried and even if he has a 20% approval rating, so long as those people who showed up in the primary do show up again he could still get the nomination again. Its going to be very tough to take down an incumbent president.
Bill: It would be tough but not impossible and if enough people realize that they were buffaloed by him the first time around, I could see a situation where its going to be very tough for him to retain blue-collar America if things dont materially improve for them over the next 3 years. Well see, but I dont know really who would seek the nomination for President in 2020 and really be a credible candidate to get 15+ percent.
Charles: I could see Ted Cruz trying in the primary with a slogan like wheres the wall 2020.
Bill: I dont know and Im not all that interested. On the Democratic side, here in Virginia Mark Warner, I dont know if hed be all that interested, but I could see a Democrat sort of in the mold of Mark Warner who positions himself quite successfully as a centrist Democrat being a strong candidate to face Donald Trump or any Republican in 2020. I dont know if hed do that or not, but he would be up for reelection to the US Senate in 2020 and I dont know whether he could run for both or whether hed want to. I could see where the Democrats, of course the partys gone left, but you never know they could say hey weve got to suck it up and nominate someone whos electable.
Charles: Okay. Overall Bill thank you for joining us, weve had a great time, and we look forward to the next 2-4 years of the liberty movement and see where it gets us.
Bill: I think were moving forward but weve got to try to move forward faster and do everything we can to capitalize on our progress so far.
Charles: And keep our clothes on.
Bill: That too.
Jacob: Alright Bill, its been great to have you here with us.
Bill: Same to you Charles and Jacob. Thank you for having me.
This has been the second of two parts of BeingLibertarian.coms interview with former LNC Bill Redpath. Click here for part 1.
DISCLAIMER: This interview has been edited for reduction of stuttering, repetition, and vocalized pauses as well as succinctness.
Jacob Linker is a Campus Coordinator with Students For Liberty and the State Chair of Young Americans for Liberty in his state.
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An Interview with Former LNC Chair Bill Redpath (Part 2) - Being Libertarian