Vinnie Liu Has a Mission: Keeping People Safe Online and Offline – DARKReading
Vinnie Liu was only 17 years old when he landed his first job the National Security Agency (NSA). The year was 1999, and he worked onsignals intelligence gathering.
It was a formidable but typical start for Liu, now Bishop Fox CEO and co-founder. The NSA was looking for promising high school graduates with proven fluency in hacking and programming languages. Liu, then an incoming computer science majorwith apsychology minor at the University of Pennsylvania, spent two years commuting from Philadelphia to the NSA satellite office in Baltimore. His first year was focused on red-team hacking and the second on specialized tool development.
Working at the NSA really opened my eyes into how deep you can get, into how deep this rabbit hole can go," Liu says. "I had grown up with bulletin-board systems on the Internet. Cybersecurity wasnt even a term people used.
Thats about all he will say about his work at the NSA, except that it involved nation-state actors. But the experience left a lasting imprint.
It gave me a huge sense of being mission-driven, Liu says. Were missionaries, not mercenaries. Our mission, fundamentally, is to keep people safe both online and offline.
That mission ultimately manifested itself as Bishop Fox, an offensive security firm whose team of hackers pretend to be villains. In other words, they try every possible way to penetrate a clients security defenses, including adversary simulations and purple teaming (red teaming and advising the clients blue team at the same time).
But for all the criminal cunning that Bishop Fox staff need to employ, Liu thinks of the companys work in medical terms. Bishop Fox, he says, is the doctors doctor.
There are so many similarities between good health practice and security, he tells Dark Reading. You dont just prescribe pills and thats it. You dont eat healthy and exercise once and thats it.
This approach is a view into the two personal qualities underlying Lius success: his sense of purpose missionaries, not mercenaries and his palpable scorn for complacency. Lius brand of optimism is hard, even austere.
People in the industry have too pessimistic a view, he says. I dont even like the joke, 'Its not if you get hacked, but when.' Our whole philosophy is defending forward.
Career PathLike many successful tech firms, Bishop Fox has humble origins: the living room of a bachelor pad.
Liu had graduated from Penn in 2003, having focused on network security and adaptive intrusion detection services. He then joined Ernst & Young as a security consultant, performing penetration testing for Fortune 500 clients. Liu calls Ernst & Youngs Advanced Security Center a kind of NSA for the private sector.
Working with Liu at Ernst & Young was Francis Brown, now on Bishop Foxs board. Brown and Liu had lived on the same hall as freshmen at Penn, and both studied computer science. They were the only first-year students in their program who did not drop out within the year, Liu says. The two friends lived as housemates in Arizona, where as long as we could afford pizza and Internet, we were good to go.
Honeywell would eventually poach both men from Ernst & Young; Liu would lead Honeywells global penetration testing team, plus the teams of Honeywells various subsidiaries. The chance to build up Honeywells team was an exciting prospect, but turned out to be a limited opportunity: Once the team was built, the slower pace of work left Liu (and Brown) restless. Liu had outgrown the role; by 2005 he was speaking at conferences like Black Hat on how to bypass anti-forensic tools a skill he had been developing since his teens. Both Liu and Brown started moonlighting as independent security professionals.
Then one day, in 2006, Liu, Brown, and a third contributor sat in the living room and toyed with the idea of launching a security services startup.
We said, Why not? Liu remembers. We were really enjoying this.
From 2006 to 2009, we were a lifestyle company, says Liu, referring to the fact that the company was still kind of a hobby for them. In 2009 they switched to a professional mindset, and Bishop Fox was born. Liu and his partners set about recruiting the best talent they could find and attracting bigger and bigger-name clients. Their revenue rose, despite launching during the Great Recession.
It was also the Titan Rain era when a string of attacks believed to be the work of Chinese state-sponsored actors compromised a number of government agencies in the United States and United Kingdom and companies and government agencies were beginning to realize how vulnerable they really were. Binary analysis and incident-response forensics were suddenly in high demand. Liu was one of only a few hundred people in the United States who had any experience with both of these functions, and most of his peers had only worked with disk forensics.
We sucked at it back then! he laughs. Everyone did. We were playing catch-up with the people writing the viruses.
Fast-Forward to NowThese days Bishop Fox offers various assessment tests, including the comprehensive 4+1 methodology, in which several assessments and simulations are built around a central tabletop exercise. But all of the company's services involve continuous work with a clients developers, architects, and teams, rather than the waterfall style of performing one test here and another test there. Sometimes an assessment alone can take two months to complete.
This is not a let me just kick the tires kind of scan, Liu says. We look at code. We look at business logic issues. We like to find the hard problems, we always exploit, and were going to chase it down all the way.
Liu doesn't let clients rest on their brand-new tools or infrastructure either. Youve got to get the basics right," he says. "We teach them how to take a punch and keep going.
Twelve years later, the threats have grown, attackers have become more sophisticated, and defenders are changing how they approach security. Liu has observed security teams shift away from compliance-based security and toward ongoing, developmental security operations.
What does that mean for Bishop Fox?
Weve been very discreet, says Liu. I think its time to come out of our shell. Weve done good work with big name clients. Its time to go out into the world and talk, to bring good work to more people.
The landscape may have changed, but Lius mission hasnt: keeping people safe, online and off.
PERSONALITY BYTES
What is Vinnie Lius greatest success? This sounds terrible, but Im really proud of the people who have come through Bishop Fox. Some of our alumni have become CISOs at publicly traded companies. Recruiters will just hang up if they hear you work at Bishop Fox [because they know how hard it is to hire people away].
One thing his colleagues would never guess about him? I dance goofy, I sing loudly, roll on the ground, make faces. Ill do anything to make my kids laugh and smile.
His dream job if he worked in a different industry? Definitely something where I make things with my hands food for people, construction, etc.
Favorite thing to do in his spare time? My pandemic skill has been failing to grow things in my garden. The universe has somehow blighted the 32-square-feet of backyard where my garden lies.
Favorite book? Im a huge sci-fi/fantasy book nerd. The more space battles, wizards, and aliens, the better.
Read more:
Vinnie Liu Has a Mission: Keeping People Safe Online and Offline - DARKReading
- NSA Ajit Doval speaks with Chinese FM Wang Yi amid rising India-Pak tension 'War not India's choice' - The Economic Times - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- 'War was not India's choice and was not in the interests of any party': NSA Ajit Doval speaks to China's - Times of India - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- NSA to cut up to 2,000 civilian roles - The Hill - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- NSA Ajit Doval speaks with US Secretary of State 'shortly after' Indian strikes on Pak - Deccan Herald - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- NSA to cut up to 2,000 civilian roles as part of intel community downsizing - The Record from Recorded Future News - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- Operation Sindoor: NSA Doval engages with counterparts from US, UK, China, and Russia - Social News XYZ - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- CIA, NSA to face major layoffs as Trump pushes intelligence reform - Times of India - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Dont see a major war with India, but have to be ready: Pakistan ex-NSA - Al Jazeera - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Donald Trump set to axe thousands of jobs at CIA, NSA and other agencies - Daily Mail - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- 757Teamz softball Top 15: NSA moves up as Hickory perseveres to remain No. 1 - The Virginian-Pilot - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- NSA head Mike Waltz and his deputy Alex Wong to exit Trump admin amid Signal chat fiasco - The Economic Times - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Trump speaks out on NSA shakeup, addresses third term talk - Fox News - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Mike Waltz, Alex Wong to resign: Here's who may replace NSA head and deputy - Hindustan Times - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- A Lot of People Want the Job: Trump Says Hell Choose Waltzs NSA Replacement in Next 6 Months - The Daily Signal - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Will Steve Witkoff replace Mike Waltz as Donald Trump's new NSA? - Times of India - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Beavercreek native recognized for NSA Codebreaker achievement - Fairborn Daily Herald - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Marco Rubio to serve as acting NSA; Mike Waltz removed by President Trump - FOX 35 Orlando - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Trump says he will name new NSA within 6 months - LiveNOW from FOX - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Mike Waltz out as NSA, Rubio to serve in the interim - LiveNOW from FOX - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Mike Waltz Leaves White House for UN Witkoff Tipped as Trumps Next NSA - Hungarian Conservative - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- McConnell calls out Trump for hiring amateur isolationists at Pentagon, firing NSA director - The Hill - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trumps firing of NSA chief is rolling out the red carpet for cyber attacks - Politico - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- A conspiracy theorist convinced Trump to fire the NSA director - Vox - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- William Hartman Named Acting NSA Director Following Dismissal of Top Officials - ExecutiveGov - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA and partners Issue Guidance on Fast Flux as a National Security Threat - National Security Agency (NSA) (.gov) - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Security News This Week: NSA Chief Ousted Amid Trump Loyalty Firing Spree - WIRED - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Head of NSA and US Cyber Command reportedly fired - Cybersecurity Dive - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump fires Gen. Timothy Haugh from leadership of Cyber Command and NSA - DefenseScoop - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Gen. Timothy Haugh, head of NSA and Cyber Command, is fired - CBS News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump's mixed tariff messaging and NSA director and deputy fired: Morning Rundown - NBC News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA Director and Deputy Reportedly Dismissed: What We Know - Newsweek - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Haugh fired from leadership of NSA, Cyber Command - The Record from Recorded Future News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump administration fires head of NSA and U.S. Cyber Command, along with other top officials - CBS News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- US Cyber Command, NSA Chief Gen. Timothy Haugh ousted by Trump admin - Breaking Defense - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Face the Facts: Rep. Himes talks about firing of two top NSA officials - NBC Connecticut - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA Issues Advisory on Fast Flux Cyberthreat - ExecutiveGov - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Loomer, far-right activist, urged Trump to remove NSA director and others: Sources - ABC News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- The NSA Sounds Security Alarm For Billions Of iPhone And Android Phones - HotHardware - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA director fired after Trumps meeting with right-wing influencer Laura Loomer - The Verge - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump fires head of NSA and Cyber Command - Nextgov - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- What are the national security concerns of Trump firing the NSA, Cyber Command head? - CBS News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Who is Timothy Haugh? The NSA chief fired amid cyber security concerns - Times of India - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA, CISA, FBI, and International Partners Release Cybersecurity Advisory on Fast Flux, a National Security Threat - Hstoday - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Senator King Responds to Reported Firing of NSA Director General Timothy Haugh - WAGM - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA warned of vulnerabilities in Signal app a month before Houthi strike chat - CBS News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Trump said poised to fire NSA Mike Waltz for including journalist in top secret war chat - The Times of Israel - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Not the last Waltz: Trump defends NSA after security breach - The Times of India - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- NSA warned about vulnerabilities in Signal prior to White House group chat fiasco - SiliconANGLE News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- NSA warned the Signal app was vulnerable last month - WTIC - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Codebreakers and Covert Agents: The Women Behind the NSA and CIA heads to Illinois State Museum - WAND - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- NSA warned about using Signal a month before leak of Houthi strike chat - CBS News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- 'Putin is giddy': NSA knew Signal was vulnerable to Russian hackers before security breach - AlterNet - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- RAW: NSA MIKE WALTZ EXPECTED TO VISIT GREENLAND - Local 3 News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- US NSA likely to visit India in third week of April - Hindustan Times - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Statement from Secretary Rubio and NSA Waltz on Call with Zelenskyy - Department of State - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- Europe must invest more in defence amid global shifts: Greeces NSA Ntokos - Firstpost - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- NSA Bahrain, NAVCENT Hold First-of-its-Kind Exercise Vigilant Resolve - navy.mil - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- Former NSA boss Osei Assibey Antwi picked up by NIB - GhanaWeb - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- WHAT THE TECH? NSA recommending weekly smartphone restarts & how it improves performance - Local 3 News - March 9th, 2025 [March 9th, 2025]
- Ex-NSA cyber chief warns of devastating impact of potential DOGE-inspired firings - Breaking Defense - March 9th, 2025 [March 9th, 2025]
- Former top NSA cyber official: Probationary firings devastating to cyber, national security - CyberScoop - March 9th, 2025 [March 9th, 2025]
- Prime Targets Martha Plimpton On Her NSA Character & Why This Political Thriller Works: Never Trust People In Charge - Deadline - March 9th, 2025 [March 9th, 2025]
- Former NSA Dep. Director, Gifty Oware-Mensah will see NIB over 80k ghost names allegations - GhanaWeb - March 5th, 2025 [March 5th, 2025]
- Zelensky is not ready for peace talks, US NSA says - Mehr News Agency - English Version - March 3rd, 2025 [March 3rd, 2025]
- More Than 100 Intelligence Staffers Will Be Fired Over Sexually Explicit Texts In NSA Chatrooms, Gabbard Says - Forbes - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- NSA says it is investigating potential misuse of chat platform - The Record from Recorded Future News - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- 100-plus spies fired after NSA internal chat board used for kinky sex talk - The Register - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- Tulsi Gabbard says more than 100 intelligence officers will be fired for sexually explicit NSA chat messages - CNN - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- Elon Asked What Government Workers Did. The NSA Overshared - Schiff Sovereign - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- Tulsi Gabbard Fires 100 Intelligence Officers for Sex Chats on NSA-Hosted Tool - The Daily Beast - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- Elon Musk reacts to leaked chat alleging NSA, CIA officials discussed raising intersex babies as non-bina - The Times of India - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- What NSA, DIA agents said about Libs of TikTok, Ben Shapiro in leaked messages - The Times of India - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- NSA staff accused of lurid sex chats at work they were just discussing LGBTQ+ issues - PinkNews - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- Sen. Tom Cotton reacts to lewd NSA chats: 'We don't want these people anywhere near classified information' - Fox News - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- At least 100 NSA staffers to be fired for explicit chats during work hours - WDRB - March 1st, 2025 [March 1st, 2025]
- Gifty Oware-Mensah on the run as NIB investigates NSA scandal - GhanaWeb - February 25th, 2025 [February 25th, 2025]
- Former NSA, Cyber Command chief Paul Nakasone says U.S. falling behind its enemies in cyberspace - CyberScoop - February 25th, 2025 [February 25th, 2025]
- NSA emphasizes strong defensive posture as it responds to report it hacked China - Washington Times - February 25th, 2025 [February 25th, 2025]
- How the NSA Head of Accounts was undermined by his deputy for eight months after appointment - GhanaWeb - February 25th, 2025 [February 25th, 2025]
- What Is Proteus in Zero Day? How the NSA Weapon Changes Everything - Collider - February 25th, 2025 [February 25th, 2025]