The Cyberlaw Podcast: Can Editorial Middleware Cut the Power of the Big Platforms? – Lawfare
Our interview this week is with Francis Fukuyama, a fellow and teacher at Stanford and a renowned scholar and public intellectual for at least three decades. He is the coauthor of the Report of the Working Group on Platform Scale. Its insightful on the structural issues that have enhanced the power of platforms to suppress and shape public debate. It understands the temptation to address those issues through an antitrust lens as well as the reasons why antitrust will fail to address the threat that platform power poses to our democracy. As a solution, it proposes to force the platforms to divest their curatorial authority over what Americans (and the world) reads, creating a host of middleware suppliers who will curate consumers feeds in the way that consumers prefer. We explore the many objections to this approach, from first amendment purists to those, mainly on the left, who really like the idea of suppressing their opponents on the right. But it remains the one policy proposal that could attract support from left and right and also make a real difference.
In the news roundup, Dmitri Alperovich, Nick Weaver, and I have a spirited debate over the wisdom of Googles decision to expose and shut down a western intelligence agencys use of zero day exploits against terrorist targets. I argue that if a vulnerabilities equities process balancing security and intelligence is something we expect from NSA, it should also be expected of Google.
Nate Jones and Dmitri explore the slightly odd policy take on SolarWinds that seems to be coming from NSA and Cyber Command the notion that the Russians exploited NSAs domestic blind spot by using US infrastructure for their attack. That suggests that NSA wants to do more spying domestically, although no such proposal has surface. Nate, Dmitri, and I are united in thinking that the solution is a change in US law, though Dmitri thinks a know your customer rule for cloud providers is the best answer, while I think I persuaded Nate that empowering faster and more automatic warrant procedures for the FBI is doable, pretty much as we did with the burner phone problem in the 90s.
The courts, meanwhile, seem to be looking for ways to bring back a Potter Stewart style of jurisprudence for new technology and the fourth amendment: I cant define it, but I know it when it creeps me out. The first circuits lengthy oral argument on how long video surveillance of public spaces can continue without violating the fourth amendment is a classic of the genre.
Dmitri and Nick weigh in on Facebooks takedown of Chinese hackers using Facebook to target Uighurs abroad.
Dmitri thinks we can learn policy lessons from the exposure (and likely sanctioning) of the private Chinese companies that carried out the operation.
Dmitri also explains why CISAs head is complaining about the refusal of private companies to tell DHS which US government agencies were compromised in SolarWinds. The companies claimed that their NDAs with, say, Treasury meant that they couldnt tell DHS that Treasury had been pawned. Thats an all too familiar example of federal turf fights hurting federal cybersecurity.
In our ongoing feature, This Week in U.S.-China Decoupling, we cover the Disaster in Alaska evaluate the latest bipartisan bill to build a Western technology sphere to compete with Chinas sector, note the completely predictable process ousting of Chinese telecom companies from the US market, and conclude that the financial sectors effort to defy the gravity of decoupling will be a hard act to maintain.
Always late to embrace a trend, I offer Episode 1 of the Cyberlaw Podcast as a Non-Fungible Token to the first listener to cough up $150, and Nick explains why it would be cheap at a tenth the price, dashing my hopes of selling the next 354 episodes and retiring.
Nick and I have kind words for whoever is doxxing Russian criminal gangs, and I suggest offering the doxxer a financial reward (not just a hat tip in a Brian Krebs column.) We have fewer kind words for the prospect that AI will soon be able to locate, track, and bankrupt problem gamblers.
I issue a rare correction to an earlier episode, noting that Israel may not have traded its citizens health data for first dibs on the Pfizer vaccine. It turns out that what was deidentified aggregate health data, Israel offered Pfizer which with proper implementation may actually stay aggregate and deidentified. And I offer my own hat tip to Peter Machtiger, for a student note in an NYU law journal that cites the Cyberlaw Podcast, twice!
And more!
Download the 355th Episode (mp3)
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The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not reflect the opinions of their institutions, clients, friends, families, or pets.
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The Cyberlaw Podcast: Can Editorial Middleware Cut the Power of the Big Platforms? - Lawfare
- NSA, CISA Release CSI Urging Adoption of Memory Safe Languages for Enhanced Software Security - ExecutiveGov - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- Brandonville native named Sailor of the Year at NSA Mechanicsburg - The Shenandoah Sentinel - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- NSA and CISA Release CSI Highlighting Importance of Memory Safe Languages in Software Security - National Security Agency (NSA) (.gov) - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- NSA Doval Emphasizes Anti-Terror Cooperation During High-Level Beijing Talks With Chinese Foreign Minister - The Hans India - June 24th, 2025 [June 24th, 2025]
- NSA Doval and Chinese Foreign Minister discuss future meet on boundary issue - Tribune India - June 24th, 2025 [June 24th, 2025]
- NSA Ajit Doval to deliver strong message on terrorism on his upcoming China visit - Moneycontrol - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Bangladesh NSA In Washington, Talking To Trump Officials. More Regional Shifts? - IndiaWest - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Naval Academy, NSA Annapolis closed Monday for mysterious world events. Both reopened Tuesday. - Baltimore Sun - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Pakistan is useful to the world: Former NSA Shivshankar Menon explains why countries still support Islam - The Economic Times - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Midland University Receives Grant from NSA - Midland University - June 20th, 2025 [June 20th, 2025]
- NSA Approves Wave Relay Devices for Securing Classified Information - AFCEA International - June 7th, 2025 [June 7th, 2025]
- NSA Validates Wave Relay devices to Protect Classified Information - PR Newswire - June 5th, 2025 [June 5th, 2025]
- Cyberattacks Surge in 2025: Data Analysts Urged to Bolster Privacy with PETs and NSA-CISA AI Security Guidelines - WebProNews - June 1st, 2025 [June 1st, 2025]
- India is ready and has capability to fight terrorism on its own: Former Dy NSA Pankaj Saran in London - The Economic Times - June 1st, 2025 [June 1st, 2025]
- NSA Teams With Int'l Cyber Agencies to Craft Guidance for Implementing SIEM, SOAR Platforms - ExecutiveGov - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- NSA, ASDs ACSC, and other agencies publish three Cybersecurity Information Sheets with gu - National Security Agency (.gov) - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Punjab MP and NSA detainee Amritpal Singhs jailed aides look to speed up trials in other FIRs, file plea - Times of India - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- NSA Ajit Doval down with flu, calls off visit to Russia - Hindustan Times - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Former NSA Director and SandboxAQ CEO on Quantitative AI and its inevitable integration - MSN - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- NSA Ajit Doval speaks with Chinese FM Wang Yi amid rising India-Pak tension 'War not India's choice' - The Economic Times - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- 'War was not India's choice and was not in the interests of any party': NSA Ajit Doval speaks to China's - Times of India - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- NSA to cut up to 2,000 civilian roles - The Hill - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- NSA Ajit Doval speaks with US Secretary of State 'shortly after' Indian strikes on Pak - Deccan Herald - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- NSA to cut up to 2,000 civilian roles as part of intel community downsizing - The Record from Recorded Future News - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- Operation Sindoor: NSA Doval engages with counterparts from US, UK, China, and Russia - Social News XYZ - May 10th, 2025 [May 10th, 2025]
- CIA, NSA to face major layoffs as Trump pushes intelligence reform - Times of India - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Dont see a major war with India, but have to be ready: Pakistan ex-NSA - Al Jazeera - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Donald Trump set to axe thousands of jobs at CIA, NSA and other agencies - Daily Mail - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- 757Teamz softball Top 15: NSA moves up as Hickory perseveres to remain No. 1 - The Virginian-Pilot - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- NSA head Mike Waltz and his deputy Alex Wong to exit Trump admin amid Signal chat fiasco - The Economic Times - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Trump speaks out on NSA shakeup, addresses third term talk - Fox News - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Mike Waltz, Alex Wong to resign: Here's who may replace NSA head and deputy - Hindustan Times - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- A Lot of People Want the Job: Trump Says Hell Choose Waltzs NSA Replacement in Next 6 Months - The Daily Signal - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Will Steve Witkoff replace Mike Waltz as Donald Trump's new NSA? - Times of India - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Beavercreek native recognized for NSA Codebreaker achievement - Fairborn Daily Herald - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Marco Rubio to serve as acting NSA; Mike Waltz removed by President Trump - FOX 35 Orlando - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Trump says he will name new NSA within 6 months - LiveNOW from FOX - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Mike Waltz out as NSA, Rubio to serve in the interim - LiveNOW from FOX - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- Mike Waltz Leaves White House for UN Witkoff Tipped as Trumps Next NSA - Hungarian Conservative - May 5th, 2025 [May 5th, 2025]
- McConnell calls out Trump for hiring amateur isolationists at Pentagon, firing NSA director - The Hill - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trumps firing of NSA chief is rolling out the red carpet for cyber attacks - Politico - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- A conspiracy theorist convinced Trump to fire the NSA director - Vox - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- William Hartman Named Acting NSA Director Following Dismissal of Top Officials - ExecutiveGov - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA and partners Issue Guidance on Fast Flux as a National Security Threat - National Security Agency (NSA) (.gov) - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Security News This Week: NSA Chief Ousted Amid Trump Loyalty Firing Spree - WIRED - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Head of NSA and US Cyber Command reportedly fired - Cybersecurity Dive - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump fires Gen. Timothy Haugh from leadership of Cyber Command and NSA - DefenseScoop - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Gen. Timothy Haugh, head of NSA and Cyber Command, is fired - CBS News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump's mixed tariff messaging and NSA director and deputy fired: Morning Rundown - NBC News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA Director and Deputy Reportedly Dismissed: What We Know - Newsweek - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Haugh fired from leadership of NSA, Cyber Command - The Record from Recorded Future News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump administration fires head of NSA and U.S. Cyber Command, along with other top officials - CBS News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- US Cyber Command, NSA Chief Gen. Timothy Haugh ousted by Trump admin - Breaking Defense - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Face the Facts: Rep. Himes talks about firing of two top NSA officials - NBC Connecticut - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA Issues Advisory on Fast Flux Cyberthreat - ExecutiveGov - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Loomer, far-right activist, urged Trump to remove NSA director and others: Sources - ABC News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
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- NSA director fired after Trumps meeting with right-wing influencer Laura Loomer - The Verge - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Trump fires head of NSA and Cyber Command - Nextgov - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- What are the national security concerns of Trump firing the NSA, Cyber Command head? - CBS News - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Who is Timothy Haugh? The NSA chief fired amid cyber security concerns - Times of India - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA, CISA, FBI, and International Partners Release Cybersecurity Advisory on Fast Flux, a National Security Threat - Hstoday - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- Senator King Responds to Reported Firing of NSA Director General Timothy Haugh - WAGM - April 8th, 2025 [April 8th, 2025]
- NSA warned of vulnerabilities in Signal app a month before Houthi strike chat - CBS News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Trump said poised to fire NSA Mike Waltz for including journalist in top secret war chat - The Times of Israel - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Not the last Waltz: Trump defends NSA after security breach - The Times of India - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- NSA warned about vulnerabilities in Signal prior to White House group chat fiasco - SiliconANGLE News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- NSA warned the Signal app was vulnerable last month - WTIC - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Codebreakers and Covert Agents: The Women Behind the NSA and CIA heads to Illinois State Museum - WAND - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- NSA warned about using Signal a month before leak of Houthi strike chat - CBS News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- 'Putin is giddy': NSA knew Signal was vulnerable to Russian hackers before security breach - AlterNet - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- RAW: NSA MIKE WALTZ EXPECTED TO VISIT GREENLAND - Local 3 News - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- US NSA likely to visit India in third week of April - Hindustan Times - March 26th, 2025 [March 26th, 2025]
- Statement from Secretary Rubio and NSA Waltz on Call with Zelenskyy - Department of State - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- Europe must invest more in defence amid global shifts: Greeces NSA Ntokos - Firstpost - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- NSA Bahrain, NAVCENT Hold First-of-its-Kind Exercise Vigilant Resolve - navy.mil - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- Former NSA boss Osei Assibey Antwi picked up by NIB - GhanaWeb - March 22nd, 2025 [March 22nd, 2025]
- WHAT THE TECH? NSA recommending weekly smartphone restarts & how it improves performance - Local 3 News - March 9th, 2025 [March 9th, 2025]
- Ex-NSA cyber chief warns of devastating impact of potential DOGE-inspired firings - Breaking Defense - March 9th, 2025 [March 9th, 2025]
- Former top NSA cyber official: Probationary firings devastating to cyber, national security - CyberScoop - March 9th, 2025 [March 9th, 2025]