Mike Pence’s doppelgnger says Pence would be worse than Trump as president – AOL
The election of President Trump sent shockwaves throughout much of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, who, after achieving eight years worth of political gains under the Obama administration, now faces an administration many LGBT leaders deem hostile to its civil rights goals.
But as controversy continues to cloud Donald Trump's presidency, with a growing investigation into his campaign ties to Russia looming over his administration, the odds of Vice President Mike Pence assuming the nation's highest seat before the next presidential election have people talking.
And a chunk of them belongs to the LGBT community, who are not so certain Pence would be a better choice for gay and transgender Americans given his long history of opposition to LGBT rights.
Last year, Glenn Pannell, a gay man who people thought looked eerily similar to Pence, made headlines after donning short shorts while collecting money for health care and LGBT rights organizations in the wake of the election.
But nearly seven months later, Pannell, who said he was "hit hard" by Trump's victory, believes his worse fears have been brought to fruition.
"I think Trump is very scary. I joined the course of people who are terrified of what is happening to this country and what is happening to people's opinion of this country, both here and abroad," Pannell tells AOL News.
See photos of Glenn "Hot-Pence" Pannell
14 PHOTOS
Mike Hot-Pence
See Gallery
Photo credit: Abby Stokes
Photo credit: Jared Chrysostom
The line between activist fundraiser and pole dancer is ever so thin. #NPSR #MikeHotPence #activismishot (Photo credit: Scott Lynch/Gothamist)
Washington, DC: January 19, 2017 at the Arena Stage "Thanks Obama" event with organizer Bejide Davis
Cupids Undie Run to benefit The Childrens Tumor Foundation and neurofibromatosis research
Its time we started loving our planet like its the only one we have. Ill be in Times Square today 3/25 near the corner of 46th and Broadway from noon to 3pm to raise money for Natural Resources Defense Council, a non-profit that works to safeguard the earthits people, its plants and animals, and the natural systems on which all life depends. Come give me some bucks and a hugIll pass it on to the trees. (PLEASE NOTE: all tree-touching in the above photo was consensual.)
Health. Passion. Freedom. Strength. Care. For 100 Years. #StandWithPP
My biggest fan. #aprilfoolsday #MikeHotPence #activismishot
My life-size Mike Pence cutout arrived today. Let the games begin...
Tax March DC, April 15, 2017.
GQ says the hottest look this summer is activism. Check out the June issue!
Im making sure every hair is in its proper place for my upcoming weekend in DC for Capital Pride. Join me for Pride + Shine at Urbana Restaurant to raise the roof and raise some funds for Trevor Project on June 10 from 10am-6pm. Come fuel up and fun up before you get your march on! #MikeHotPence #CapitalPride
Happy National Selfie Day! Ill be out this evening 6/21 from 6:30pm to 8pm near the corner of 46th and Broadway raising money for International Refugee Assistance Project. So come chuck some bucks in my collection jug and snap a selfie. The skies are fair and my thighs are bare!
HIDE CAPTION
SHOW CAPTION
Pannell believes Trump has been working hard to roll back some of the progress made by the LGBT community under the Obama administration.
Since Trump's inauguration in January, LGBT activists have grown embittered by the current administration's rollback of federal guidance advising school districts to let transgender students use bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity.
And many members and allies of the community, including Pannell, complain that Trump, who campaigned in 2016 as a potential ally of the community, staffed his team with opponents of LGBT rights, such as Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price, and, more notably, the next in line for the presidency in the event Trump is unseated, Vice President Mike Pence.
But as far as the talk of Trump or Pence as president goes, "it really is a sort of pick your poison dilemma, Pannell said when considering his look-alike's staunch opposition towards LGBT rights. "Do you want unfocused and dangerous or focused and dangerous?"
For many in the LGBT community, it's no secret that Pence has long stood against the expansion of rights for gay and lesbian couples. But, for many, his distaste for LGBT equality goes even further.
SEE ALSO: LGBT groups: 'We are at war' with Trump during Pride month and beyond
As governor of Indiana, Pence attracted the public's attention when he signed into law a bill that legalized the refusal of service to gay and transgender people on account of the business' religious freedom, for example, a bakery that cited its religious freedom as probable cause to refuse to bake a cake for a same-sex couple getting married.
"The sad reality is that if [Trump] is impeached or if he resigns, then we are stuck with a President Pence," which Pannell adds might actually be more dangerous for the LGBT community.
And he is not alone.
Sarah Kate Ellis, the President and CEO of GLAAD, agreed, telling AOL News: "From his time as U.S. Congressman to being Indiana's governor, Pence's anti-LGBTQ activism spans decades, and it would only continue if he reached the nation's highest political office."
Though the early administration of Trump has been criticized for its perceived anti-LGBT appointments and decisions like proposing cuts in funding for HIV and AIDS research, many still predict worse would happen for the LGBT community in the event of an actual Pence presidency.
"What LGBTQ Americans are witnessing since Donald Trump became president is a systematic erasure to the LGBTQ community," Ellis continued. "The Trump Administration has removed LGBTQ people from government websites and the upcoming 2020 U.S. Census, but if Mike Pence were to ever become president, this erasure would be placed into overdrive."
Images from LGBTQ Pride month 2017:
9 PHOTOS
LGBTQ Pride month 2017
See Gallery
BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM - MAY 27: Thousands of members of the LGBTQ community gathered today for the Birmingham Pride parade on May 27, 2017 in Birmingham, England. The Birmingham Pride is an annual festival for the LGBTQ community usually taking place over the Spring Bank Holiday. The event begins with a parade from Victoria Square in the city center to the Gay Village in Hurst Street. PHOTOGRAPH BY Jim Wood / Barcroft Images London-T:+44 207 033 1031 E:hello@barcroftmedia.com - New York-T:+1 212 796 2458 E:hello@barcroftusa.com - New Delhi-T:+91 11 4053 2429 E:hello@barcroftindia.com http://www.barcroftimages.com (Photo credit should read Jim Wood / Barcroft Images / Barcroft Media via Getty Images)
A picture taken on June 5, 2017 shows a new green pedestrian crossing symbol depicting a same-sex couple in Madrid as the capital will host this year's World Pride festival from June 23 to July 2. / AFP PHOTO / OSCAR DEL POZO (Photo credit should read OSCAR DEL POZO/AFP/Getty Images)
A picture taken on June 5, 2017 shows a new green pedestrian crossing symbol depicting a same-sex couple in Madrid as the capital will host this year's World Pride festival from June 23 to July 2. / AFP PHOTO / OSCAR DEL POZO (Photo credit should read OSCAR DEL POZO/AFP/Getty Images)
QUEENS, NY - JUNE 4: Members of New York City's gay, lesbian and transgender community prepare to march in the Queens Gay Pride parade on June 4, 2017 in Jackson Heights, Queens. The parade route down Northern Boulevard travels through a working class immigrant neighborhood. (Photo by Andrew Lichtenstein/Corbis via Getty Images)
QUEENS, NY - JUNE 4: Members of New York City's gay, lesbian and transgender community prepare to march in the Queens Gay Pride parade on June 4, 2017 in Jackson Heights, Queens. The parade route down Northern Boulevard travels through a working class immigrant neighborhood. (Photo by Andrew Lichtenstein/Corbis via Getty Images)
<
BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM - MAY 27: Thousands of members of the LGBTQ community gathered today for the Birmingham Pride parade on May 27, 2017 in Birmingham, England. The Birmingham Pride is an annual festival for the LGBTQ community usually taking place over the Spring Bank Holiday. The event begins with a parade from Victoria Square in the city center to the Gay Village in Hurst Street. PHOTOGRAPH BY Jim Wood / Barcroft Images London-T:+44 207 033 1031 E:hello@barcroftmedia.com - New York-T:+1 212 796 2458 E:hello@barcroftusa.com - New Delhi-T:+91 11 4053 2429 E:hello@barcroftindia.com http://www.barcroftimages.com (Photo credit should read Jim Wood / Barcroft Images / Barcroft Media via Getty Images)
BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM - MAY 27: Thousands of members of the LGBTQ community gathered today for the Birmingham Pride parade on May 27, 2017 in Birmingham, England. The Birmingham Pride is an annual festival for the LGBTQ community usually taking place over the Spring Bank Holiday. The event begins with a parade from Victoria Square in the city center to the Gay Village in Hurst Street. PHOTOGRAPH BY Jim Wood / Barcroft Images London-T:+44 207 033 1031 E:hello@barcroftmedia.com - New York-T:+1 212 796 2458 E:hello@barcroftusa.com - New Delhi-T:+91 11 4053 2429 E:hello@barcroftindia.com http://www.barcroftimages.com (Photo credit should read Jim Wood / Barcroft Images / Barcroft Media via Getty Images)
HIDE CAPTION
SHOW CAPTION
However, the divisive nature of both Trump and Pence's positions on gay and transgender issues made it difficult for Rea Carey, the executive director of the National LGBTQ Task Force, to ponder which man would be better or worse for the LGBT community.
"They are both terrible as is third in line, Paul Ryan and fourth in line Orrin Hatch," Carey said in a statement to AOL News. "They all represent policies that are designed to reverse progress and to hold back lived freedom, justice, equality, and equity for LGBTQ people and everyone."
During his campaign, LGBT leaders were alarmed when Trump promised to nullify all of Obama's executive orders, including an order that protected federal contractors from anti-LGBT discrimination, which many are saying weakens the protections of LGBT employees.
But leaders say Pence has done little since his days in Congress to suggest he disagrees with the president's actions.
The vice president's history of opposition to gay rights dates back to his first congressional campaign in 2000 when he argued against same-sex marriage and non-discrimination laws that protected members of the LGBT community.
The self-described "Christian, a conservative and a Republican, in that order" politician also said being gay was a choice before a group of 100 conservative House members in 2006 as head of the Republican Study Committee. He even cited a Harvard researcher to justify the views stated in his speech, saying, "societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family."
SEE ALSO: The internet has fallen in love with a couple who recreated their Pride March photo
David Stacy, the Government Affairs Director of the Human Rights Campaign, also said it's difficult to draw a distinction between a Trump or Pence presidency in relation to its impact on LGBT rights.
Stacy said he thinks the country is already seeing "Mike-Pence policies" being pursued across the nation.
"Mike Pence appears to be quite empowered in this administration," Stacy said. "His people that are most ideologically similar to him, who are most in agreement around LGBTQ issues, are the one's that seem to be making decisions, whether it's Tom Price and HHS or its the Attorney General."
But, even if the political climate drastically changes by way of the growing FBI investigation into the Trump campaign's relationship with Russian officials, Stacy contends the struggle for gay and transgender rights will inevitably continue.
"The country is in a different place," Stacy said, citing stats from a 2015 Gallup Poll revealing 60 percent of Americans to be in support of same-sex marriage, including the "majority of Republicans," which he said is evidence that "the country is way ahead of the politicians."
He is not entirely optimistic, however, that the Trump administration will change its stance on LGBT issues anytime soon.
"I think we have an administration that isn't being driven by what's popular," Stacy concluded. "They're being driving by ideological agenda and, unfortunately, that ideological agenda includes an anti-LGBTQ agenda.
Click through images from LGBTQ protests outside Ivanka Trump's home:
4 PHOTOS
LGBTQ protest outside Ivanka Trump's home
See Gallery
Protestors rally during the Queer Dance Party for Climate Change outside the home of Assistant to the President Ivanka Trump in Washington, D.C., U.S., April 1, 2017. REUTERS/Aaron P. Bernstein
Protestors rally during the Queer Dance Party for Climate Change outside the home of Assistant to the President Ivanka Trump in Washington, D.C., U.S., April 1, 2017. REUTERS/Aaron P. Bernstein
Protestors rally during the Queer Dance Party for Climate Change outside the home of Assistant to the President Ivanka Trump in Washington, D.C., U.S., April 1, 2017. REUTERS/Aaron P. Bernstein
HIDE CAPTION
SHOW CAPTION
More from AOL.com: US Vice President Mike Pence hires his own lawyer for Russia probes After weeks of secrecy, US Senate to unveil healthcare bill Poll: Feelings on Trump administration's relationship with Russia unchanged amid House Intel Committee probe
Excerpt from:
Mike Pence's doppelgnger says Pence would be worse than Trump as president - AOL
- Mike Pence to speak as the universitys annual Alice Pope Shade Lecture - suquill.com - February 9th, 2026 [February 9th, 2026]
- Mike Pence joins growing number of Republicans splitting with Trump on Greenland - The Independent - January 24th, 2026 [January 24th, 2026]
- Watch Hopeful SCOTUS Will Overturn Trump Tariffs: Mike Pence - Bloomberg - January 24th, 2026 [January 24th, 2026]
- Mike Pence Defends Trump's Greenland Ambitions, Saying National Security Demands ItAnd NATO Might Not Be Happy - Yahoo - January 24th, 2026 [January 24th, 2026]
- EXCLUSIVE: Mike Pence's Group Hires Former Heritage Legal Scholar Amid Exodus From Think Tank - freebeacon.com - January 14th, 2026 [January 14th, 2026]
- Mike Pence on military force in Greenland: "no" - CNN - January 14th, 2026 [January 14th, 2026]
- MIKE PENCE: Venezuela has a chance for freedom, thanks to Trump and our armed forces - Fox News - January 14th, 2026 [January 14th, 2026]
- Mike Pence Slams Trump White House's Jan. 6 Website as 'Very Offensive' and 'Deeply Wrong' | Video - TheWrap - January 14th, 2026 [January 14th, 2026]
- MIKE PENCE: Venezuela has a chance for freedom, thanks to Trump and our armed forces - FOX 8 TV - January 14th, 2026 [January 14th, 2026]
- A rift in MAGA has top Heritage Foundation officials leaving to join with Mike Pence - Indiana Public Media - December 27th, 2025 [December 27th, 2025]
- A rift in MAGA has top Heritage Foundation officials leaving to join with Mike Pence - NPR - December 22nd, 2025 [December 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence Slams the Fallen Heritage Foundation Amid Mass Exodus to His Own Think Tank - Yahoo - December 22nd, 2025 [December 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence Slams Trump's 'Doctrine Of Contradictions,' Warns New Security Strategy Will Please China, Russia But 'Discomfit' Allies - Benzinga - December 12th, 2025 [December 12th, 2025]
- Enter To Win Tickets To See Mike Pence On January 28 At The Sacramento Speaker Series! - Talk 650 KSTE - December 7th, 2025 [December 7th, 2025]
- Scenes from former Vice President Dick Cheneys funeral at Washington National Cathedral today. Former Presidents George W. Bush and Joe Biden were in... - November 20th, 2025 [November 20th, 2025]
- Mike Pence says America must continue to stand with Israel amid Union protest - varsity.co.uk - November 20th, 2025 [November 20th, 2025]
- Mike Pence, 48th Vice President of the United States, speaks at Chatham House - Chatham House - November 16th, 2025 [November 16th, 2025]
- Mike Pence's Handwritten Notes Reveal the Insult Donald Trump Used in Final Conversation Before Jan. 6 Riots - People.com - October 28th, 2025 [October 28th, 2025]
- Mike Pence's Handwritten Notes Reveal the Insult Donald Trump Used in Final Conversation Before Jan. 6 Riots - Yahoo - October 28th, 2025 [October 28th, 2025]
- Mike Pence's Handwritten Notes Reveal the Insult Donald Trump Used in Final Conversation Before Jan. 6 Riots - Yahoo News Canada - October 28th, 2025 [October 28th, 2025]
- Excerpts from Mike Pence notes on Jan. 6 conversations with Trump come out: Youll go down as a wimp - Diario AS - October 28th, 2025 [October 28th, 2025]
- Trump Slammed Mike Pence As A Wimp In Final Call Before Jan. 6 Insurrection - HuffPost - October 28th, 2025 [October 28th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's Insult For Mike Pence On Jan 6 Should Have JD Vance Watching His Back - thelist.com - October 28th, 2025 [October 28th, 2025]
- Trumps final words on Jan 6 to Mike Pence revealed - The Independent - October 26th, 2025 [October 26th, 2025]
- Trumps final words on Jan 6 to Mike Pence revealed - Yahoo News Canada - October 26th, 2025 [October 26th, 2025]
- Exclusive: Mike Pence, Conan OBrien, Helena Bonham Carter, George R. R. Martin to speak at the Union - The Oxford Student - October 7th, 2025 [October 7th, 2025]
- Mike Pence and John Bolton say Americas future lies with its citizens - Harvard Kennedy School - October 4th, 2025 [October 4th, 2025]
- Former Vice President Mike Pence voiced support for Harvard researchers caught up in the White Houses antisemitism investigations at a Harvard forum... - October 2nd, 2025 [October 2nd, 2025]
- What Trump's First VP Mike Pence Has Been Up To Since Being Iced Out Of His Inner Circle - thelist.com - September 28th, 2025 [September 28th, 2025]
- Trump judicial pick who faced conservative backlash gets boost from Mike Pence group - Washington Examiner - September 25th, 2025 [September 25th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Says Trump Is 'Right' When He Says Ukraine Can Fight And Win Back Territory From Russia - Benzinga - September 25th, 2025 [September 25th, 2025]
- Former VP Mike Pence Heads To Academia With Faculty Role At George Mason University - Benzinga - September 21st, 2025 [September 21st, 2025]
- Former VP Mike Pence to teach politics at George Mason University in the Spring - WJLA - September 21st, 2025 [September 21st, 2025]
- Mike Pence Arrives At Capitol Before Trump Inauguration Made A Post (CIs2MbvVKU) - folha do es - September 21st, 2025 [September 21st, 2025]
- Today, Vice President Mike Pence surprised guests at the Bush Center and sat down for a special taping of The Strategerist podcast before a live... - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Former VP Mike Pence to become George Mason University professor - WUSA9 - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Former VP Mike Pence: China is the greatest economic and strategic threat facing the U.S. - CNBC - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Mike Pence joins George Mason University faculty - DC News Now - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Former VP Mike Pence to teach politics at George Mason University in the Spring - WSET - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Mike Pence announces he will be teaching at George Mason University in Virginia - weareiowa.com - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Video Mike Pence to teach politics at George Mason University in 2026 - ABC News - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Mike Pence joins George Mason University faculty - The Business Journals - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Mike Pence: "We gotta be careful about putting America on trial whenever we see evil overtake the heart of any individual. In this case, absent... - September 19th, 2025 [September 19th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Joins George Mason University as Distinguished Professor - National Review - September 17th, 2025 [September 17th, 2025]
- FORMER VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: Five years on, the Abraham Accords still point the way to peace - Fox News - September 15th, 2025 [September 15th, 2025]
- Mike Pence to speak at UNCW this fall - Port City Daily - August 29th, 2025 [August 29th, 2025]
- Vice President Mike Pence to Keynote UNCWs Dare to Learn Lecture - University of North Carolina Wilmington - August 27th, 2025 [August 27th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Blames Trump Tariffs As John Deere Cuts 238 Jobs In Iowa: 'Time To Get Back To Free Trade With Free Nations' - Benzinga - August 26th, 2025 [August 26th, 2025]
- Mike Pence on Trumps handling of Putin, tariffs - NewsNation - August 22nd, 2025 [August 22nd, 2025]
- Former VP Mike Pence tells The Hill on NewsNation Putin doesnt want peace - The Hill - August 22nd, 2025 [August 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence Calls For 'Free Trade With Free Nations' And Says Tariffs Ultimately Hurt U.S. Businesses And Shoppers - Yahoo Finance - August 14th, 2025 [August 14th, 2025]
- Mike Pence-Backed Group Calls for End to Gambling Loss Tax Deductions - newsnet5.com - August 12th, 2025 [August 12th, 2025]
- US companies and consumers paying the cost of Trumps tariffs - Mike Pence - sentinelassam.com - August 12th, 2025 [August 12th, 2025]
- Eric Metaxas Guest John Zmirak: Mike Pence, Lindsey Graham, John McCain Were Part of Obama Coup Claimed by Gabbard - People For the American Way - August 9th, 2025 [August 9th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Says 'Time Has Come' to Share Epstein Files, Adding 'Anyone' Associated with the 'Despicable Man' Deserves Scrutiny - AOL.com - July 22nd, 2025 [July 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence Joins Calls To Release Epstein Files: The Time Has Come - Yahoo Home - July 20th, 2025 [July 20th, 2025]
- Extended Interview: Mike Pence on Trump tariffs, Jeffrey Epstein and more - CBS News - July 20th, 2025 [July 20th, 2025]
- Mike Pence calls for the release of the Epstein files - AOL.com - July 20th, 2025 [July 20th, 2025]
- Mike Pence urges Trump to 'release all the files' on Jeffrey Epstein - USA Today - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Trumps former Vice President Mike Pence pushes for release of the Epstein files: The time has come - The Independent - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Mike Pence calls for the release of the Epstein files: 'I've always believed in transparency' - ABC News - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Trumps former Vice President Mike Pence pushes for release of the Epstein files: The time has come - Yahoo - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Mike Pence says Trump "starting to realize Putin doesn't want peace" - CBS News - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Mike Pence has a message for Donald Trump about Jeffrey Epstein: 'Release all the files' - South Bend Tribune - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Mike Pence makes stunning demand of Trump admin: The time has come - NJ.com - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Mike Pence has a message for Donald Trump about Jeffrey Epstein: 'Release all the files' - Yahoo - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Mike Pence says the time has come for Trump to release the Epstein files - Global News - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Says It Was Tariffs On Tea That Led To The American Revolution, Reiterates Only Congress Can Impose Such Levies - Benzinga - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Trumps former Vice President Mike Pence pushes for release of the Epstein files: The time has come - MSN - July 18th, 2025 [July 18th, 2025]
- Firing Line with Margaret Hoover kicks off eighth season on PBS with Mike Pence - PR Newswire - July 12th, 2025 [July 12th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Says Trump's Tariff Escalations With US Allies Are Like 'Dismissing Your Front Line In A Football Game' - Benzinga - July 12th, 2025 [July 12th, 2025]
- 'Jeopardizes All Of It': Ex-Mike Pence Aide Knocks Trump Over These 'Confusing' Moves - HuffPost - July 10th, 2025 [July 10th, 2025]
- JD Vance Wonders If Other VPs Had This Much Excitement Social Media Says, Ask Mike Pence - Yahoo News Singapore - June 29th, 2025 [June 29th, 2025]
- "My Respect For VP Pence Continues To Grow": People Are Applauding Mike Pence For Writing A Letter To A January 6 Rioter Who Refused Trump's... - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- 'Shows your commitment to rule of law': Trump's ex-VP Mike Pence applauds woman who refused pardon for Ja - Times of India - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- People Can't Believe They Actually Agree With Mike Pence After He Wrote A Letter To A Jan 6 Rioter - BuzzFeed - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- Mike Pence writes letter to Jan 6 rioter praising her for refusing to take Trumps pardon - MSN - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- Mike Pence reveals whether he plans to run in 2028 - Yahoo - May 22nd, 2025 [May 22nd, 2025]
- Former Vice President Mike Pence parts ways with Trump on tariff policy - WRAL.com - May 22nd, 2025 [May 22nd, 2025]
- Mike Pence criticizes Trump on tariffs and key foreign policy issues as he watches from afar - NBC News - May 22nd, 2025 [May 22nd, 2025]