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TOM BOWMAN, HOST:

Heads up - this podcast deals with war. You'll be hearing graphic descriptions in the aftermath of battle and strong language.

GRAHAM SMITH, HOST:

Previously on TAKING COVER...

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: In the case of Lance Corporals Shuder and Zurheide, that incident in 12 April, that was not even in accordance with our regulation.

DAVID COSTELLO: Why did they lie to the families, and why are they still lying? They know - somebody knows what happened. Why don't we know?

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

MICK WAGONER: I agree with your suspicions. They were protecting Duncan Hunter, protecting the Marine Corps from potential bad blood with his dad at the time. They knew who he was.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BILL SKILES: So the assumption on my part was that we did the right f***ing thing at the higher levels. Who will ever take accountability to say it's my fault, I apologize?

SMITH: That last voice there - it's Bill Skiles, Retired Sergeant Major Bill Skiles. Remember, he helped evacuate casualties from the schoolhouse. And his questions about accountability - well, we know from the investigative report that in this case, nobody was held accountable. And here's something even worse - Brad's sister told us the Marines made a promise to her parents - that their son's death would make a difference, that they'd learn the lessons.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BOWMAN: Skiles and others told us the Marine investigation wasn't shared with the men of Echo Company back in 2004, not even with the officer who called in the mission. So if they didn't see the investigation, did anyone learn the lessons? One general told us this should be taught at the officer training schools.

(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS)

BOWMAN: We decided to find out if that's happening.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: This is Graham Smith.

COREY: How's it going? Corey (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: This is Tom Bowman.

BOWMAN: Tom Bowman.

MATT: Hey. Matt (ph). Nice to meet you, Graham.

BOWMAN: Tom.

MATT: Tom, nice to meet you.

BOWMAN: This is Range 7 - Marine Corps Base Quantico, just outside D.C. This is where every young officer comes to learn the basics of combat. Today, they're learning how to call in an 81-millimeter mortar - the same kind of round that hit the schoolhouse.

MATT: Who we're working with here today is the entry-level students for the basic officer course, right? What they've received up to this point is their platform instruction on the call for indirect fire.

SMITH: We were told to wear body armor and helmets.

(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS)

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: So we're f***ing ready.

MATT: Sick.

UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: They got all their stuff. Just tell us where to be when.

MATT: OK. What are you guys looking to capture?

BOWMAN: Just walk us through how you call for fires. How do you check, double-check?

SMITH: A couple of dozen Marines are stretched out along a line looking down into a barren valley. Some trainees are flat on their stomachs, looking through binoculars and giving orders to enlisted men who stand near crates of mortars, dropping them into tubes. They're trying to hit some banged-up targets about a half-mile away.

UNIDENTIFIED MARINE #1: Eighty-one. One gun. One round and adjust. Remainder in effect. Target number Alpha, Bravo, 1-0-0-3. How copy?

UNIDENTIFIED MARINE #2: We copy you.

UNIDENTIFIED MARINE #3: So how close are you OK with them getting to...

(SOUNDBITE OF GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MARINE #3: OK.

(SOUNDBITE OF METAL CLANGING)

UNIDENTIFIED MARINE #3: Let's go on the far side so we're not in between the gun line and them.

(SOUNDBITE OF FOOTSTEPS)

BOWMAN: They talk with us about calling in mortar missions, when to specify danger close so you don't kill your own people. So did they learn about the mistake at the schoolhouse in Fallujah?

What about - I mean, now, Iraq and Afghanistan are sort of historical now. I mean, did you study mortar emplacement, mortar use in Iraq and Afghanistan? Any friendly fire incidents over there that you study as part of your course?

UNIDENTIFIED MARINE #3: Nothing in particular in Iraq, Afghanistan that we studied in the courses I've been to.

BOWMAN: None of these men - not the students, not the instructors - have ever heard about it. When this incident was buried, any possible lessons - they were buried, too. I'm Tom Bowman.

SMITH: And I'm Graham Smith. This is TAKING COVER from NPR.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

SMITH: In today's episode, the higher levels Bill Skiles talked about - it's called the chain of command - the officers who make the decisions, give the orders. For our investigation, for what we're trying to understand, they're the ones who should know what happened. They may even be the ones who buried it. We're going to talk to them - or at least try. Now, keep in mind, none of these men have any idea what we've already learned. They don't know we got a tip about a cover-up, that we have a copy of the report or that we know about Duncan Hunter's involvement.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BOWMAN: Our search for answers about this deadly friendly fire in Fallujah started, in a way, at the Pentagon. And today, that's where Graham and I are.

GREGG OLSON: Tom, good to see you.

BOWMAN: Good to see you.

OLSON: All good?

BOWMAN: Yeah. Graham Smith.

SMITH: Graham Smith.

OLSON: Hi, Graham. I assume that all your recording stuff has been...

BOWMAN: Cleared? Oh, yeah.

OLSON: ...Cleared and all that?

BOWMAN: Yeah.

OLSON: OK.

BOWMAN: The first link in that chain? It's the officer who approved the tragic mortar mission nearly two decades ago. Gregg Olson was a lieutenant colonel then, commanding a battalion of more than 700 men in Fallujah, Iraq. He's now a three-star general, an aide to the Marines top officer - the commandant.

SMITH: We told him we wanted to talk about that spring in 2004.

OLSON: Yeah. So are we doing a voice piece for NPR, or are we doing a written piece for publication?

SMITH: This will be - this will ultimately end up, I think, probably part of a podcast.

BOWMAN: We tell him we're specifically interested in the friendly fire that killed two Marines from his battalion on April 12, and we hand him a copy of the investigative report Elena Zurheide gave us.

SMITH: It's obvious that he hasn't seen it for a long time.

BOWMAN: Talk us through that. How did that happen?

OLSON: You know, as I said, my recollection of this is a little fuzzy. You might get a better interview if you let me read this.

SMITH: Yeah. If you - again, I know there's a statement from you - like, there's a lot of redactions. But...

BOWMAN: Yeah. So...

SMITH: We managed to sort of...

OLSON: I thought we were going to talk about contractors and, you know, the events of 31 March to 1 May. If we're going to dive right into this, I need to do some refresh.

SMITH: Sure.

We settled into talking about the deployment for a while.

OLSON: We were on the streets of Fallujah as early as the 26, 27 of March.

SMITH: But since he wasn't ready to talk about the incident in detail, we didn't yet raise the name Duncan Hunter Jr. Remember; he's the congressman's son. And we've been told he's the reason this incident was covered up. Anyhow, the meeting wraps up pretty quick.

BOWMAN: All right. Again, thanks.

OLSON: OK, Tom.

BOWMAN: Appreciate it. OK.

OLSON: Graham, thanks.

SMITH: It was good to meet you.

OLSON: Yeah, I'll dig through this and refresh my memory.

BOWMAN: OK.

OLSON: This is probably the most valuable thing.

BOWMAN: Yeah.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

BOWMAN: We didn't know what to think. We weren't sure whether he'd really give us another interview. After all, his old boss, Colonel John Toolan, recommended discipline for Olson over the friendly fire incident. We need answers about exactly what happened. Could Olson tell us? Could Toolan? How about the officers above them at the time? Got to say, we were a little surprised when we got a message back from General Olson about a month later. He was ready to talk again, so - back to the building.

OLSON: Good to see you.

BOWMAN: Good to see you.

SMITH: Good to see you again.

OLSON: I had a chance to get out to Illinois and collect some contemporaneous notes.

SMITH: Wow.

OLSON: So...

BOWMAN: Oh, wow.

OLSON: So between that and the investigation, which I recall - after reading it, I recall seeing it when General Mattis handed it to me on a very hot day in August of 2004 and said, read this. And then he sat me down and talked to me. So...

BOWMAN: OK. So we have, like, a half hour, I guess, right?

OLSON: I've got to hard stop at 8:25 because...

BOWMAN: OK.

OLSON: ...I have to reset for another meeting.

BOWMAN: So I guess we'll just get right into it. You know, what happened here? How was there a friendly fire incident? What happened in the...

OLSON: Yeah, it was absolutely a mistake of fact. By the 12 of April, we'd been in contact pretty much continuously for about nine days. So what happened is we came out of our evening orders group. During that day, we had gotten a fragmentary order to conduct a cordon and knock.

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Marine brass grapples with Iraq friendly fire procedural failures ... - NPR