The right to disagree matters | WORLD – WORLD News Group
NICK EICHER, HOST: Coming up next on The World and Everything in It: Free speech on campus.
As we know, speech rights and obligations can be complicated. Private universities are facing legal questions that are different from the questions government institutions face. Its difficult to know whats protected and whats not.
MARY REICHARD, HOST: Joining us now to help sort it out is Tyson Langhofer. He serves as senior counsel and director of the Center for Academic Freedom with Alliance Defending Freedom.
Tyson, good morning.
TYSON LANGHOFER, GUEST: Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me.
REICHARD: Glad youre here. Well, lets start with the baseline. What is the legal definition of hate speech?
LANGHOFER: There actually isn't a legal definition of hate speech, which is what really creates the problem in First Amendment context, because what might be hateful to one person may not be hateful to another person. And so we have taken the approach in America to have a very broad protection of speech so that the government doesn't get to define whose speech they think is hateful and thus prohibited and whose speech they think is okay and thus not prohibited.
EICHER: Okay, so going beyond the legal definitions which don't exist, are there uniform policies about hate speech on college campuses? Or is this just an ad hoc kind of case by case thing?
LANGHOFER: It is an ad hoc case by case thing, which is what creates the problem. So what the Supreme Court has said is that the government cannot look to the content or the viewpoint of somebodys speech in order to prohibit that speech. And so when a government official looks at somebody's speech and says, Well, that viewpoint is hateful, therefore, I'm going to prohibit it, the government or the Supreme Court has said that that is unconstitutional. And so what you see is there is no uniformity across the college campuses, because it is a subjective determination, which is what the Supreme Court has said the First Amendment prohibits.
REICHARD: You know, we've heard the chants "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" from those who are supporting Hamas, meaning Palestinian control over the entire territory of Israel's borders, from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Now, some say that is not anti-semitic, it's only anti-zionist, Tyson, what do you make of that argument?
LANGHOFER: Well, I mean, I think that if you're advocating for the complete annihilation of a people group from a certain, you know, country, that that makes it difficult to argue that, you know, your that your argument against simply a country as opposed to, to a people group. But I mean, I think that the debate that we're having here, about what type of rhetoric that we can engage in, in a very, very politicized and highly inflammatory environment, is the very debate that the First Amendment is designed to protect. And what the Supreme Court has said, is that the highest principle of our First Amendment jurisprudence is to protect the thought that we hate. But I think that's what our First Amendment calls us to, is to protect those things. Now, obviously, there are certain limits. So if there are people calling for imminent violence against anyone, regardless of who they are, that's not protected. But if they're arguing in general for broader principles, then that is protected, even if we think that principle is hateful or wrong.
EICHER: So maybe that's the way to do it, because I intended to ask, how do you sort of make that balance between protecting free speech but also condemning ideas that justify abhorrent action? So that's the line whether it's sort of inciting or how do you make that distinction?
LANGHOFER: That's absolutely the line as the Supreme Court has drawn it. They've said there's there's very narrow areas that are unprotected speech, one of them would be a true threat. So if I'm threatening somebody in the moment and saying, I'm going to commit some act of violence against you that's not protected, you know, actually engaging or encouraging people to go engage in imminent violence that's also not protected, but advocating for principles that might lead people in the future to take some acts which are unlawful, that is protected. And that's sort of the line that we've drawn. And I think it's really important to understand that if you have a conservative originalist view of the Constitution, you have to understand that it is going to require us to allow people to say things that we vehemently disagree with, that we think are wrong and immoral, but that also protects us as Christians to engage in speech that we believe is consistent with our biblical worldview, that many people would say it is hateful or shouldn't be protected as well.
REICHARD: I have to ask this question: why are some of our most prestigious campuses inundated with these pro Hamas views? What's going on?
LANGHOFER: Well, I think when you see that they have been taught this the issue of of critical theory, where everything is intersectional. And and it's all about who we deem as the bigger victim. And there's not a broader justice, there's not an absolute, that's it's the victim, and it's based upon identity rather than actual actions. And I think that has led them to stop looking at the actual facts on the ground, and just looking at whose identity do we believe is more oppressed? And in that, in that framework, I then determine who is the victim and who we should be supporting, as opposed to looking at it broader, what is the truth of the situation, and what is just in this situation, regardless of what their identities are? Everybody should be, you know, advocating for a just result, regardless of the identity of the individual who's being victimized.
EICHER: Tyson, I know you've been paying very careful attention to this for many years. What is your assessment of what's missing from the conversation about free speech and mitigating harm on campus? What's missing?
LANGHOFER: Yeah, I think what's missing is this. There's a large and growing portion of campus which is advocating for social justice. And we want justice as well as Christians, we desire justice. But what they don't understand is that you cannot achieve justice without obtaining the truth. What is the truth, truth and justice are inextricably linked. We must arrive at truth and then we can get the justice and everybody I think can agree we want a just society. But shutting down certain viewpoints is not going to get us to truth. And it's not going to get us to justice. And I think that's what's missing is this ability to to engage with people that we very, very much disagree with, but to do it in a way that where it's a dialectic rather than a debate, right? It's the ability to learn and to listen to the other side, and explore what they're saying. All right, at the same time, of being able to give them your viewpoint and recognize they're both created an image of God and that they're both we all have that inherent human dignity and we should respect them as a person, even if we disagree with their viewpoint.
REICHARD: Tyson Langhofer serves as senior counsel for the Alliance Defending Freedom. Thanks for joining us!
LANGHOFER: Thank you for having me.
WORLD Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of WORLD Radio programming is the audio record.
Read more:
The right to disagree matters | WORLD - WORLD News Group
- More on the New York Trump Case and the First Amendment - Reason - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Campus encampment bans rarely violate the First Amendment. Here's why. - Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Students were primed for First Amendment talk. This Pierce County district backed out - Tacoma News Tribune - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Campus chaos vindicates the American system and the First Amendment - The Hill - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Trump's Trial and the First Amendment - Reason - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Can Texas public universities remove protesters from campus? First Amendment experts explain - Austin American-Statesman - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Are gag orders constitutional? SCOTUS says it depends - VERIFYThis.com - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Donald Trump Has a First Amendment Right to Pay Hush Money to Support his Electoral Ambitions - Reason - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- "Antisemitism Awareness Act of 2023" (Which Just Passed the House) Could Suppress First-Amendment-Protected ... - Reason - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- What the First Amendment Means for Campus Protests - The New York Times - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- ACLU of Wisconsin Emphasizes the Importance Of Student's First Amendment Rights Ahead of Protests Planned at UW ... - ACLU of Wisconsin - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Indiana University Officials Need to Follow Community's Lead on Commitment to First Amendment - ACLU of Indiana - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- An American-Israeli Caught Between Antisemitism and The First Amendment - The Times of Israel - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Citizens United, campaign finance, and the First Amendment - Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Studios Warn Of First Amendment Implications For SAG-AFTRA-Backed AI Bill To Require Consent For Digital Voice And Likeness - Deadline - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Norman Siegel: A lifetime of protecting the First Amendment - Spectrum News NY1 - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- ACLU and First Amendment Coalition Challenge Cal Poly Humboldt's Campus Closure and Press Restrictions - Redheaded Blackbelt - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- 13 seconds of bloodshed: Community shares themes of activism, First Amendment with upcoming May 4 commemoration - Kent Wired - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Day 2 of pro-Palestinian protests on Wisconsin campuses, First Amendment expert weighs in - WISN Milwaukee - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- First Amendment under attack: How the Police State muzzles our right to speak truth to power - Washington Times - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- UngagTrump The Fight for First Amendment: The Leader in Freedom Fundraising. - GiveSendGo - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- What the First Amendment Means for Campus Protests - myheraldreview.com - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- What to do if you get arrested? What to know about the First Amendment amid Tennessee campus protests - Knoxville News Sentinel - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- What rights do protesters at the U of M encampment have? - KARE11.com - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- Sen. Vance worries college protests are moving beyond First Amendment and into chaos for local communities - WTRF - May 5th, 2024 [May 5th, 2024]
- New Stablecoin Bill Faces Criticism for Stifling Innovation and Breaching First Amendment Regulation Bitcoin News - Bitcoin.com News - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- TikTok ready to move to the courts to prevent ban in US - Ars Technica - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- Say 'Yes' to the First Amendment Minding The Campus - Minding The Campus - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- SCOTUS won't review decision that ratchets up legal risk at protests - Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- OPINION | Tulane must commit to upholding First Amendment - Tulane Hullabaloo - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- Parsons' Attorney Michael Judd Participates As Panelist At First Amendment Society Event - Mondaq News Alerts - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- Does BVU know the first amendment? The Tack Online - BVU The Tack Online - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- Weber State University students using their first amendment rights - The Signpost - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- Pennsylvania Court Lets Suit Over Removal of Columbus Statue Go Forward - Reason - April 22nd, 2024 [April 22nd, 2024]
- Elon Musk to fund new First Amendment campaign to combat 'relentless attacks on free speech' - Fox News - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Elon Musk's Plan To Fund National Signature Campaign In Support Of First Amendment Met With Praise - Yahoo! Voices - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Don't Panic About the Supreme Court's Right to Protest RulingYet - The New Republic - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Supreme Court Is Apparently Fine with the Assault on the First Amendment That Is Mckesson v. Doe - Esquire - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- NPR boss once called the First Amendment a 'challenge' and 'reverence for the truth' a distraction - Fox News - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Kerrville Residents File First Amendment Lawsuit In Federal Court Against City - The Texan - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- NPR Against the First Amendment - The New York Sun - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Civics lesson: First Amendment rights are broad, but there are limits - Tennessean - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- The Supreme Court effectively abolishes the right to mass protest in three US states - Vox.com - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Media Miss by the Left: Elon Musk to fund new First Amendment campaign to combat 'relentless attacks on free speech' - Straight Arrow News - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Supreme Court allows police officers suit to move forward against Black Lives Matter leader - The Hill - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- Tom Cotton Clearly Hates The First Amendment - Betches - April 20th, 2024 [April 20th, 2024]
- A new Supreme Court case threatens to take away your right to protest - Vox.com - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- No, Blocking Traffic Is Not Protected by the First Amendment - Reason - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Cable Giants Insist That Forcing Them To Make Cancellations Easier Violates Their First Amendment Rights - Above the Law - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Know Your Rights: Students in Higher Education & the First Amendment - New York Civil Liberties Union - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Star-Spangled Fascism: Extremists and the First Amendment - GBH News - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- SPJ co-authors legal brief supporting First Amendment right to record and publish livestreamed court hearings - Society of Professional Journalists - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Star-Spangled Fascism: Extremists and the First Amendment - KPBS - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Letter writer reminds others about intent behind the First Amendment - Call Newspapers - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- FCC's Jessica Rosenworcel On Trump Broadcast License Threats: First Amendment Guides Us. - Insideradio.com - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Faith-based school chaplains would test First Amendment - Fort Wayne Journal Gazette - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Arrested citizen journalist wasn't 'martyr' for journalism, 5th Circuit says in tossing her First Amendment suit - ABA Journal - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- First Amendment Bowled Over by Lanham Act Again - The National Law Review - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Florida House passes HB 1 to ban kids 16 and under from having social media accounts - NBC 6 South Florida - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Lawmakers debate whether mostly banning mugshots violates the First Amendment - My Buckhannon - January 27th, 2024 [January 27th, 2024]
- Lizzo Accusers Say First Amendment Is No Reason To Throw Out Assault, Sexual Harassment & Discrimination Suit Against Grammy Winner - Yahoo... - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Trump Appeals Gag To Protect First Amendment Right To Intimidate ... - Above the Law - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Chemerinsky: 'I am a 70-year-old Jewish man, but never in my life ... - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Prosecutors Mock Trump Attempt To Get Election Case Dismissed ... - Above the Law - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- New bill to criminalize flying unauthorized flags on public property ... - Alabama Daily News - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- This First Amendment Attack is Designed to Reduce Gun Ownership ... - America's 1st Freedom - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- SGA Amendment to Make Amendments Easier Passes; Will Move to ... - PantherNOW - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Civil rights leaders cannot be held liable for acts of rogue protestors - Foundation for Individual Rights in Education - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Justice Department Announces Investigation of the City of Lexington ... - Department of Justice - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Danny De Gracia: Don't Fall For Fake Election News This Year ... - Honolulu Civil Beat - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Mike Johnson: The Christian Nationalist Speaker Daily Montanan - Daily Montanan - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- AI and a marketplace of illusion and confusion - The Fulcrum - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Increased efforts to require party labels in Ohio races - Spectrum News 1 - November 13th, 2023 [November 13th, 2023]
- Louisiana's 'In God We Trust' Law May Violate Establishment Clause Of The First Amendment - TPM - November 7th, 2023 [November 7th, 2023]
- Coalition of Baptist leaders will file amicus brief challenging NAMB's view of First Amendment - Baptist News Global - November 7th, 2023 [November 7th, 2023]
- Legal Docket: Facebook and the First Amendment - WORLD News Group - November 7th, 2023 [November 7th, 2023]
- How First Amendment protections are limiting our ability to ensure ... - Slate - November 7th, 2023 [November 7th, 2023]
- Woodland Park teachers win their fight to restore First Amendment ... - Colorado Public Radio - November 7th, 2023 [November 7th, 2023]
- Flagler County judge dismisses traffic tickets against 'First ... - Palm Coast Observer and Ormond Beach Observer - November 7th, 2023 [November 7th, 2023]
- Kansas resident removed from meeting wins First Amendment case ... - Heartlander News - November 7th, 2023 [November 7th, 2023]