Jan. 6 panel piecing together details of final Trump-Pence call – POLITICO
That gap of information looms as the House panel works to finalize a minute-by-minute account of Trumps actions on Jan. 6, when he pushed Pence to prevent the transfer of power to Biden. Committee Chair Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) has remained publicly undecided about whether to seek testimony from Pence himself, noting that Pences closest advisers have cooperated fulsomely. But investigators must also confront whether Pences side of that conversation for which no Pence advisers were present is significant enough to ask him to fill in the blanks.
Its unlikely the committee will attempt to force Pence to testify. There are imposing legal obstacles for subpoenaing a former vice president, and the panel considers Pence a witness, not a target of their probe. Whether they ask for his voluntary help is another question.
An hour after the call, Pence would publicly declare what hed privately told Trump for weeks: He would not assert unprecedented power to overturn the election. Barring some unforeseen twist, Joe Biden would be the next president. Aides who had been working all morning to finalize Pences statement delayed it to give Trump a chance to address his supporters, but the decision had long been settled.
But Pences words to Trump could be significant as congressional and criminal probes of Jan. 6 advance. A federal judge has concluded that Trump more likely than not criminally conspired to obstruct Congress proceedings to finalize Bidens victory. He described Trumps pressure campaign against Pence as a coup in search of a legal theory. The select committee has also argued that Trump committed multiple crimes as he leaned on Pence to subvert the election.
Jan. 6 call logs obtained by the select committee, revealed last month by The Washington Post and CBS, show that Trump first tried to reach Pence at 9:02 a.m. But the two men did not connect. The operator, according to those call logs, left a message at 9:15 a.m. Trump had already twice tweeted that morning that Pence had the power to stop Congress from finalizing Bidens victory.
The logs dont reflect Trumps subsequent call with Pence, but a private schedule investigators obtained from the National Archives suggests the two men connected at 11:20 a.m. while Pence was in his residence and Trump was in the Oval Office. Pences chief of staff Marc Short and chief counsel Greg Jacob told the select committee that they remembered Pence receiving the call from Trump at about that time.
[A]t some point during our meeting a military aide knocked on the door and said the President was holding for the Vice President, at which point he excused himself to take the call, Short recalled.
How long was he gone? a committee attorney asked.
My best guess would be 15, 20 minutes, Short replied.
Upon his return, did he share any details of the conversation with you? the investigator asked.
No, Short said.
Jacob also recalled that Pence left the room to take Trumps call and agreed Pence didnt brief them on it when he came back.
The Vice Presidents rule was never to divulge the contents of his conversations with the President, Jacob testified.
Shortly after hanging up, Pence traveled to the Capitol to preside over the joint session of Congress.
Pences apparent privacy hasnt stopped accounts of the call from emerging. Theyve just all come from people who only heard Trumps side of it.
The same private schedule showing Trumps call with Pence also reveals who entered the Oval Office just minutes earlier, a group that appeared to be present while Trump made his final push to pressure his vice president. The list includes Trumps adult children Ivanka, Donald Jr. and Eric, as well as Kimberly Guilfoyle, Donald Jr.s then-girlfriend. Also in the room were White House aide Keith Kellogg, chief of staff Mark Meadows and counsel Eric Herschmann. Kellogg, who testified to the select committee, said he recalled seeing Eric Trumps wife, Lara, in the vicinity, though shes not listed on the schedule.
Multiple people familiar with the testimony given to the select committee about the call offered a consistent account. One of those people granted anonymity to speak candidly said witnesses described the conversation as beginning relatively pleasantly, with Trump embracing the legal advice he was given about Pences ability to send the election back to the states.
Although people in the Oval Office couldnt hear him, Pence had clearly rejected Trumps entreaties, the person indicated. Witnesses have said listeners in the room were surprised because it was the first time they recalled Pence saying no to Trump. The call deteriorated and Trump grew frustrated.
A portion of Kelloggs testimony has become public in court filings and provided a similar recollection of Trumps side of the phone call. Kellogg said he couldnt hear Pences responses but remembered Trump pushing his vice president to embrace a fringe theory intended to stop Bidens victory: sending the election back to a handful of GOP-controlled state legislatures to appoint new presidential electors.
Kellogg said he presumed Pence rebuffed Trump because Trump seemed disappointed. He recalled Trump saying something to the effect of: Youre not tough enough to make the call.
I would say [he] was frustrated, Kellogg told the committee. He hung up. And after he hung up, we went right back to speech prep. He didnt get up, walk out, yell, throw things. He just said okay and went back to the speech discussion.
Kellogg also told the select committee that Ivanka Trump turned to him at the close of the call and said, Mike Pence is a good man.
Importantly, Ivanka Trump, Guilfoyle and Herschmann, the former Trump White House lawyer, have all recently testified to the select committee and were likely asked about their recollection of the call. Aides to all three did not respond to requests for comment.
But a harsher version of the exchange described by Kellogg has emerged in books and news reports.
You can either go down in history as a patriot or you can go down in history as a pussy, Trump said, according to an account reported by The New York Times days after the Jan. 6 attack.
Months later, Trump told ABC that he wouldnt dispute the Times account. I also said You can be Thomas Jefferson or you can be no Thomas Jefferson, and you turned out to be no Thomas Jefferson, Trump recalled to ABC.
The book Peril, by Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, describes some of Pences pushback on the call, quoting him as telling Trump, Ill do my job. The comment reportedly prompted furious pushback from Trump.
The select committee has used those books as a rough guide for questioning witnesses, looking to confirm reported details. But its unclear whether the panel has collected more details on Pences final words to Trump that day.
Shortly after they hung up, Trump traveled to the Ellipse to deliver his remarks to the Stop the Steal rally he assembled in Washington to pressure Pence and Congress. He told the crowd that he had just spoken to Pence, whom he referenced a dozen times in his speech.
All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify and we become president and you are the happiest people, Trump told the crowd.
I just spoke to Mike. I said, Mike, that doesnt take courage. What takes courage is to do nothing. That takes courage. And then were stuck with a president who lost the election by a lot and we have to live with that for four more years, Trump continued. Were just not going to let that happen.
Here is the original post:
Jan. 6 panel piecing together details of final Trump-Pence call - POLITICO
- Is the Hispanic Red Wave for Donald Trump Starting to Crash? - The New Yorker - July 8th, 2025 [July 8th, 2025]
- President Donald Trump's approval rating by state as of July 2025 - Yahoo - July 8th, 2025 [July 8th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Sending More Weapons to Ukraine: What We Know - Newsweek - July 8th, 2025 [July 8th, 2025]
- It Appears Elon Musk REALLY Pissed Off Donald Trump This Time, And I'm Convinced They're DUNZO - Yahoo - July 8th, 2025 [July 8th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Wants to Add His Face to Mount Rushmore. Here's What Its Former Keeper Says About 'the Reality of the Rock' - Yahoo News - July 6th, 2025 [July 6th, 2025]
- Map Shows Donald Trump's Approval Rating in Every State on 4th of July - Newsweek - July 4th, 2025 [July 4th, 2025]
- Keir Starmer says good relationship with Donald Trump based on shared family values - The Guardian - July 4th, 2025 [July 4th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's 'Big, Beautiful Bill' Heads Back to the House: What's Next? - Newsweek - July 2nd, 2025 [July 2nd, 2025]
- The play-by-play of the 24-hour war of words between Elon Musk and Donald Trump - Business Insider - July 2nd, 2025 [July 2nd, 2025]
- Donald Trump Says Hes Found a Group of Very Wealthy People to Buy TikTok and Keep App in U.S. - Variety - June 29th, 2025 [June 29th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Says Group Of "Very Wealthy People" Looking To Acquire TikTok - Deadline - June 29th, 2025 [June 29th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Confirmed to Return with Speaking Part in Disney World's Hall of Presidents - WDWMagic - June 29th, 2025 [June 29th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Warns NY Mayor Candidate Zohran Mamdani: 'Do the Right Thing' - Newsweek - June 29th, 2025 [June 29th, 2025]
- Donald Trump says 'very wealthy group' has agreed to buy TikTok in the US - Sky News - June 29th, 2025 [June 29th, 2025]
- Orchestrated grovel: critics react to Europes attempts to tame Donald Trump - The Guardian - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Is About to Confront the Real Reason the US Keeps Starting Wars - Politico - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Cuts Off Trade Talks With Canada, 'Effective Immediately' - Newsweek - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- Jen's Version: Are we really going to pretend Donald Trump is concerned about classified material? - MSNBC News - June 28th, 2025 [June 28th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Makes Major Change to Mortgages: What to Know - Newsweek - June 26th, 2025 [June 26th, 2025]
- 'It's possible' Putin will invade more than Ukraine, says Donald Trump - Euronews.com - June 26th, 2025 [June 26th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Nobel Peace Prize Nomination Withdrawn - Newsweek - June 24th, 2025 [June 24th, 2025]
- Dear heads of state: Donald Trump wont love you back. He may be the worst boyfriend the world has ever seen - The Guardian - June 24th, 2025 [June 24th, 2025]
- Marjorie Taylor Greene Flips Out Over 'Dirty Rumors' About Her And Donald Trump - Yahoo - June 24th, 2025 [June 24th, 2025]
- 'How angry Donald Trump is': Social media reacts to Trump dropping F-bomb live on TV - Times of India - June 24th, 2025 [June 24th, 2025]
- President Donald Trump: The strikes were a spectacular military success - Fox News - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Donald Trump Bombs Iran, and America Waits - The New Yorker - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Bombing Iran, Donald Trump is triggering a tragedy that Thucydides foretold long ago - The Forward - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Is Donald Trump an Antagonist or Champion of the Gay Community? - The New York Times - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Donald Trump to Address Nation After Attacking Iran Nuclear Sites - Newsweek - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Donald Trump says US has attacked three Iranian nuclear sites and totally obliterated them - The Guardian - June 22nd, 2025 [June 22nd, 2025]
- Juventus meet Donald Trump at the White House as he discusses Iran conflict and transgender women in sport - The New York Times - June 20th, 2025 [June 20th, 2025]
- Trump denies approving Iran attack plan but will make decision within two weeks | Donald Trump - The Guardian - June 20th, 2025 [June 20th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's National Park Tip Line Flooded With Angry Messages - Newsweek - June 20th, 2025 [June 20th, 2025]
- Opinion | What the Godfather of American Conservatism Would Think About Donald Trump - Politico - June 16th, 2025 [June 16th, 2025]
- The quiet truce between Gavin Newsom and Donald Trump is over - CalMatters - June 10th, 2025 [June 10th, 2025]
- Gavin Newsom Dares Donald Trump to Arrest Him: 'Get It Over With' - Newsweek - June 10th, 2025 [June 10th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Accused Of Inciting Violence With Chilling New Rhyme - Yahoo News - June 10th, 2025 [June 10th, 2025]
- Opinion | Donald Trump vs. California (and everywhere else) - The Washington Post - June 10th, 2025 [June 10th, 2025]
- 'So much for being nice guy': Donald Trump reignites trade tensions, warns China it has violated tariff d - Times of India - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Mike Pence Accuses Donald Trump of Ignoring Constitution - Newsweek - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- We demanded justice after George Floyds death. Donald Trump made things worse, but we fight on | Al Sharpton - The Guardian - May 26th, 2025 [May 26th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Posts All-Caps Memorial Day Message Attacking USA Hating Judges And Scum Who Are Trying To Destroy Our Country - Deadline - May 26th, 2025 [May 26th, 2025]
- CNN abruptly stopped for breaking news as Donald Trump explodes at reporter over Ukraine question - The Mirror US - May 26th, 2025 [May 26th, 2025]
- Donald Trump is throttling Americas oil industry - The Economist - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- Donald Trump prizes more Gulf investment in the US - BBC - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Vows to Reduce Prescription Drug Costs by Up to 80 Percent - Newsweek - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- What is habeas corpus and why might Donald Trump want to suspend it? - BBC - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- Donald Trump calls for 20,000 new officers to aid with deportations - BBC - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- Donald Trump is a bigger threat to UK than terrorists, poll says - politico.eu - May 8th, 2025 [May 8th, 2025]
- Donald Trump to announce 'major trade deal' with a big and highly respected nation - Times of India - May 8th, 2025 [May 8th, 2025]
- Donald Trump picks the wrong trade fight with China - The Economist - April 30th, 2025 [April 30th, 2025]
- Donald Trump says he will be talking to Australias prime minister about tariffs - The Guardian - April 30th, 2025 [April 30th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Names His Dream Successor for Pope Francis Ahead of the Papal Conclave - People.com - April 30th, 2025 [April 30th, 2025]
- Giants say they had no conversations with Donald Trump about Saquon Barkley - NBC Sports - April 30th, 2025 [April 30th, 2025]
- Donald Trump is proving disastrous for big tech - The Economist - April 30th, 2025 [April 30th, 2025]
- Opinion | Donald Trump Is Selling the White House to the Highest Bidder - The New York Times - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- 'Kicking butt' or 'going too fast'? Donald Trump voters reflect on 100 days - BBC - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's approval rating takes a hit as he reaches 100 days: New polls - USA Today - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Experts On Russia Say Donald Trump Is Wrong About The War In Ukraine - Forbes - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Donald Trump went after one of America's top law firms. Its decision to fight back took just two hours. - Business Insider - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Sweeping change. Donald Trump voters reflect on controversial first 100 days of second term. - Chicago Tribune - April 27th, 2025 [April 27th, 2025]
- Donald Trump wants celebrities to kiss the ring. Bill Maher did: wholl be next? | Emma Brockes - The Guardian - April 25th, 2025 [April 25th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's trip to Pope Francis' funeral puts a sharper focus on their clashes over the years - AP News - April 25th, 2025 [April 25th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Is Tanking One of Americas Greatest Exports in the Middle of a Trade War - Slate - April 25th, 2025 [April 25th, 2025]
- 'Reality bites Donald Trump in the you know where': China contradicts the White House over tariffs - MSNBC News - April 25th, 2025 [April 25th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's "Objectively Embarrassing And Hilarious" Message To Vladimir Putin Is Now A Meme - Yahoo - April 25th, 2025 [April 25th, 2025]
- The Nobel is just the start: 16 imagined victories for Donald Trump | Ariel Dorfman - The Guardian - April 21st, 2025 [April 21st, 2025]
- Is Donald Trump Breaking the Law? Seven Experts Weigh In. - The Free Press - April 21st, 2025 [April 21st, 2025]
- JD Vance: Donald Trump's Global 'Bad Cop' In His First 100 Days In Office - NDTV - April 21st, 2025 [April 21st, 2025]
- What is the Insurrection Act? What To Know as Donald Trump Deadline Hits - Newsweek - April 21st, 2025 [April 21st, 2025]
- Vince Vaughn Visits Donald Trump and The White House Shares Wedding Crashers Parody Poster - Variety - April 21st, 2025 [April 21st, 2025]
- President Donald Trump Is Saving Social Security Hundreds of Millions of Dollars per Year. But Is It Enough to Prevent Benefit Cuts? - Yahoo Finance - April 21st, 2025 [April 21st, 2025]
- We knew Donald Trump is bad at business. Now the world does, too. | Sheneman cartoon - NJ.com - April 14th, 2025 [April 14th, 2025]
- Donald Trump is now badly wounded. Europe and the UK can seize an advantage - The Guardian - April 12th, 2025 [April 12th, 2025]
- Bill Maher Says Donald Trump Was Gracious and Willing to Listen During White House Visit - hollywoodreporter.com - April 12th, 2025 [April 12th, 2025]
- Bill Maher Recounts Surprising Meeting With Gracious and Measured Donald Trump - TV Insider - April 12th, 2025 [April 12th, 2025]
- Bill Maher's full monologue on his Donald Trump meeting: Read the transcript - USA Today - April 12th, 2025 [April 12th, 2025]
- Donald Trump's tariffs on China, EU and more, at a glance - BBC - April 12th, 2025 [April 12th, 2025]
- Donald Trump Says 'Market Is Going To Boom,' Claiming '$6-7 Trillion' Worth Of Inflows Will Come After The Worst Selloff Since 2020 - Yahoo Finance - April 5th, 2025 [April 5th, 2025]
- Live updates: 'Hands Off!' protesters rally against Donald Trump, Elon Musk - The Hill - April 5th, 2025 [April 5th, 2025]