As Calls Grow to Impeach Trump, Former Nixon Counsel John Dean Sees "Echoes of Watergate" – Democracy Now!
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: As of today, President Trump has been in office for 36 days. Theres already a growing chorus of voices calling for his impeachment. Nearly 900,000 people have signed an online petition entitled "Impeach Donald Trump Now." Thousands of protesters poured into the streets Monday for "Not My Presidents Day" marches across the country. Thousands more stormed Republican town halls this week to confront Republican leaders over their support for Trump.
Even the city of Richmond, California, has joined the movement. On Tuesday, the Richmond City Council voted unanimously to approve a resolution calling on Congress to consider Trumps impeachment, arguing Trump is in violation of the Constitutions Emoluments Clause, which prohibits people holding federal office from accepting payments from foreign governments.
The demand for Trumps impeachment comes as he presides over an understaffed White House in near constant crisis. This comes as White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus sought unsuccessfully to have the FBI refute news reports that Donald Trumps campaign advisers were in frequent contact with Russian intelligence agents ahead of Novembers election. Thats according to CNN, which reported on Thursday the FBI declined to publicly corroborate Priebuss denial. Priebuss outreach to the FBI violated policies intended to limit communications between the White House and the FBI on pending investigations. Priebus denied the reports during an interview Sunday on Meet the Press.
REINCE PRIEBUS: I know what they were told by the FBI, because Ive talked to the FBI. I know what theyre saying. I wouldnt be on your show right now telling you that weve been assured that theres nothing to The New York Times story, if I actually wasnt assuredand, by the way, if I didnt actually have clearance to make this comment.
AMY GOODMAN: Allegations of White House communications with the FBI during the investigation into Russias influence have raised questions about whether the Trump administration has violated ethics restrictions meant to protect such investigations from political influence. Theyve also drawn comparisons to former President Richard Nixons 1972 discussion with aides who used the CIA to push the FBI away from investigating the Watergate burglary that later led to Nixons resignation.
Will the constant chaos, confusion and conflicts of interest in the Trump administration lead to President Trumps impeachment? Well, for more, we go to someone whos been at the center of the unraveling of a presidency and a vote for impeachment. Thats right, President Richard Nixons White House counsel, John Dean. Hes the author of several books, including The Nixon Defense: What He Knew and When He Knew It and Conservatives Without Conscience, as well as Broken Government: How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches.
John Dean, welcome to Democracy Now!
JOHN DEAN: Good morning, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: So, we have 36 days so far into this presidency. It took a second term of office for President Nixon before the House Judiciary Committee voted on articles of impeachment against him. He would later resign, so he wasnt impeached. But can you talk about where Donald Trump is right now?
JOHN DEAN: Well, what I see and hear, in following it, are echoes of Watergate. If you recall, Watergate ran about 900 days. In other words, it went on for years, starting with a bungled burglary at the Democratic National Committee and right up to Richard Nixons resignation, followed by the conviction of his top aides. So it ran a long time. What were seeing is very accelerated. Its partially responsible because of the media and the technology today, but its also the behavior of Trump and his aides, as well as the medias vigilance on this. So were seeing things accelerated. And what I see or hear are echoes of Watergate. We dont have Watergate 2.0 yet, but we have something that is beginning to look like it could go there.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I wanted to turn right now to what took place in Richmond, California. It became the first U.S. city to call for an investigation into whether to impeach President Trump. A resolution approved by the Richmond City Council states Trump is in violation of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution, which prohibits people holding federal office from accepting payments from foreign governments. These are some of the city officials who voted unanimously in favor of the impeachment resolution.
COUNCILMEMBER JAEL MYRICK: Ordinarily, it would be odd to be talking about thewell, everything about this administration is odd. But it would be odd to be talking about the impeachment of a president only a month into his term. Unfortunately, with this president, its oddly appropriate.
COUNCILMEMBER JOVANKA BECKLES: The word is very, very clear that the residents of these United States are not in alignment with his movement of hate, his movement of fear, his movement of bullying and intimidation, and his movement of just out-and-out lies.
AMY GOODMAN: Voices of the city councilmembers in Richmond, California. Do you think what theyre accusing President Trump of could lead to his impeachment?
JOHN DEAN: It could lead there, Amy, if the Republicans didnt control both houses of Congress. Its a beginning. It takes a lot of momentum, much more than one city. It takes hundreds of cities. It takes really a national change of attitude about this president before were going to have an impeachment. Right today, given the fact that the House and Senate are controlled by the Republicans, theyre not going to impeach their president. As long as he gives them what they want and signs into legislation or signs into law a lot of the things that theyve had in their dreams for many years, theyre not going to give him any problem. Soand hes not going to give them any problem, because he doesnt want to have a fight with them. So, its going to be a while. Impeachment is not a legal process. Its a quasi-legal process, but its primarily a political process. And were not there yet. Now, a lot of people might like it. Its not going to happen until the political process reaches that stage.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, let me ask you about this latest breaking news out of CNN and also The New York Times, White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus seeking unsuccessfully to have the FBI refute news reports that Donald Trumps campaign advisers were in frequent touch with Russian intelligence agents ahead of Novembers election, CNN also reporting Thursday the FBI declined to publicly corroborate Priebuss denial, Priebuss outreach to the FBI violating policies intended to limit communications between the White House and the FBI on pending investigations. And this goes back to Watergate, when you were at the White House.
JOHN DEAN: It does.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what is improper here, and possibly what is illegal here? And talk about your position as White House counsel at the time. What were you seeing happening there? And what these allegationswhy they are so significant?
JOHN DEAN: Theres actually nothing illegal about talking to the FBI. Nobody has to talk to the FBI when they come to see them or knock on their door, unless theyre carrying a subpoena or acting directly for a grand jury. To my knowledge, theres no grand jury at this stage of any kind of inquiry into Mr. Trumps or his aides conduct. So, theres probably nothing overtly illegal. There is a policy that was written in the late 2000s between the FBI and anybody in the rest of the executive branch, or the Congress, for that matter, talking to them about a ongoing investigation. That appears to be the regulation that may have been violated. And what happened is, one of the assistant directors pulled Priebus aside in the White House after a meeting and just said The New York Times story is a little bit overboard.
AMY GOODMAN: McCabe of the FBI.
JOHN DEAN: Yes, yes, excuse methe FBI investigation was a little bit overboard as reported by The New York Times. And it was just a passing remark. And then Priebus tried, apparently, to reach back and get more out of them. And thats where he probably crossed the linea regulatory line, not a legal line. So, but this is a
AMY GOODMAN: This is pressuring both McCabe and then a call to the head of the FBI, Comey
JOHN DEAN: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: to get them to publicly say that these stories about the contact between Trumps people and Russia were not true.
JOHN DEAN: It was an effort on behalf of the White House that failed. Comey was not about to buy into it. He has an ongoing investigation, and he wasnt about to undercut it by giving that kind of comment to Priebus. So, thatthis investigation has to play out. And it will play out. It will play out on Capitol Hill. It will play out in the FBI.
Russia kind of breaks down into three categories. Theres the pre-election activity: Did the Trump campaign have contact with Russians and somehow know that they were hacking into the DNC, trying to hurt Hillary and help Trump? Thats the first question. Then theres the period between the election and the inauguration, when Flynn was having contact with the ambassador. Did the president, and how manywho else on his staff was involved in those efforts to try to possibly undercut the Obama administration? And, of course, the third big area that theyre investigating is: What is the truth or falsity of the dossier that appeared from the MI6 former employee, a fellow by the name of Steele, who reported what he was finding from some of his contacts in Russia as to whether or not Russia had compromised Donald Trump? Those are sort of the big three areas theyre looking at in the Russian investigation. And any one of those could cause Mr. Trump a serious problem.
AMY GOODMAN: Back in 1972, you had Richard Nixon discussing with aides using the CIA to push the FBI from investigating the Watergate burglary. Were you in on those discussions?
JOHN DEAN: What happened is, before that happened, I had been overI had been called over by the acting director of the FBI, Pat Gray, to have an update and a report. And I came back and reported to Haldeman what was going on. Its interesting, Amy. And Ive gone through every single Watergate conversation for the book I did, The Nixon Defense: What He Knew and When He Knew It. We transcribed everything, about 600 tapes that had never been heard before. So I tracked it from the beginning to the end. And what happened in that conversation is Haldeman sort of took what I told him and pushed it much further than either Mitchell or I thought appropriate, and tried to sell the president on this as being a tool to use the CIA to cut off the FBI. Now, that was later called an obstruction of justice. Im not sure, technically, it was. But what it did is it caught Richard Nixon in a lie, because he had denied he had known anything about any cover-up until I told him much later, when I started having direct dealings with him. And it was the lie that caught him more than that particular incident.
AMY GOODMAN: Were going to break and then come back to this discussion. Were talking to John Dean, who served as counsel to the presidentthat was President Nixonauthor of a number of books, including The Nixon Defense: What He Knew and When He Knew It and Conservatives Without Conscience, as well as Broken Government: How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches. Well be back with him in a minute, and then well go to our exclusive interview with Seattle Seahawks football star Michael Bennett, why he chose not to go on an Israeli government-sponsored trip to Israel. Stay with us.
Go here to see the original:
As Calls Grow to Impeach Trump, Former Nixon Counsel John Dean Sees "Echoes of Watergate" - Democracy Now!
- Trump administration accused of hypocrisy after claiming the UK and Europe are trampling democracy - The Independent - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Review | This philosopher believed that beauty could save democracy - The Washington Post - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Q&A: Is This the End of U.S. Democracy? - Cal Alumni Association - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Mexico steps into unknown with worlds first popular election of all judges: A blind date with democracy - The Guardian - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Venezuelas Participatory Democracy and the Struggle Against Imperialism: A Conversation with Alison Bodine - Venezuelanalysis - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Ian Bassin 98, Hon.25: You Will Decide Whether Democracy Endures - Wesleyan University - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Terror-free Trkiye initiative will boost democracy: VP Ylmaz | Daily Sabah - Daily Sabah - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Hong Kong pro-democracy and gay rights activist Jimmy Sham released after 4 years in prison - Messenger-Inquirer - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- RCV Momentum, Young Voters, and Faster Runoffs - This Weeks Expand Democracy 5 - The Fulcrum - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- The price of Christianitys broken bargain with democracy - Big Think - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Freed HK democracy activist says needs to figure out 'red lines' - The Albia Newspapers - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Curtis Yarvin wants to replace American democracy with a form of monarchy led by a CEO - CNN - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Erdogans push for a new constitution and the erosion of Turkish democracy - eKathimerini.com - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- The Youth Are the Guardrails of Democracy Martha Karua - The Elephant - May 30th, 2025 [May 30th, 2025]
- Scott Pelley Warns Graduates About the Threats to American Democracy - The New Republic - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Democracy in East Africa is retreating. Here is how it can be saved - Al Jazeera - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Beyond Joe Biden and Donald Trump: How gerontocracy is weakening US democracy - Times of India - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Dinner Tables Will Save Democracy and Business - Rolling Stone - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- 'Ringing the Bell': Wilder honored by Richmond Bar Association for promoting democracy and government - VCU News - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- OPINION: Are Americans fed up with democracy? - Midland Daily News - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Venezuela is charting its own path Democracy and society - IPS Journal - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- EU must make media reforms a reality in European Democracy Shield - Editor and Publisher - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- In the face of election denial in North Carolina, the judiciary upholds democracy - NC Newsline - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Martinellis Escape Is Testing Panamas Governmentand Its Democracy - World Politics Review - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Find your perfect fit at Democracy Clothing's pop-up event this weekend! - KEYE - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- What does Americas foreign and military policy have to do with democracy? - Brookings - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- The Future of Democracy in the Age of Deepfakes - The Cairo Review of Global Affairs - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Democrat 'Saving Democracy' Party Was Purposefully And Hypocritically Subverting Democracy - OutKick - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- EU: Free, vibrant and pluralistic media must be at the heart of Democracy Shield - ipi.media - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- Hidden Threat to Democracy Slipped Into Trumps Big, Beautiful Bill - The Daily Beast - May 28th, 2025 [May 28th, 2025]
- The Survival of Democracy Depends on Our Willingness to Fight - Democracy Docket - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Professor Contributes to International Collaboration Examining AI and Democracy - University of New Haven - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- What Is Democracy Beyond Elections? - promarket.org - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- EU's Annual Report on Human Rights and Democracy in the World 2024 - EEAS - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Helldivers 2: Heart of Democracy update live, brings the fight to the streets of Super Earth - PlayStation.Blog - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Has Trump killed US democracy? - Funding the Future - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- No Surrender: The Boss Is Showing How to Stand Up to Trump - Democracy Docket - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Popes understand better than politicians the weaknesses of democracy - Catholic Herald - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Restore the Balance hosts panel on state of American democracy - The Durango Herald - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Libraries are a pillar of democracy. We need to defend them against attack | Opinion - Austin American-Statesman - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Nothing Can Justify It: Journalist Gideon Levy Reacts to Killing of Israeli Embassy Staffers in D.C. - Democracy Now! - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Letter: When true Democracy is a tricky thing - Chico Enterprise-Record - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- A Gross Usurpation of Power: Federal Judge Reverses Trumps Closure of U.S. Institute for Peace - Democracy Now! - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Bernie Sanders agrees Democratic Party is 'threat to democracy,' removed process from its constituents - Fox News - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- SCOTUS Gives Trump Green Light to Fire Heads of Independent Agencies - Democracy Now! - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Council of Europe brings young people together to discuss democracy, rights and diversity - coe.int - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Brazilian jurists Alexandre de Moraes, Crmen Lcia join experts on fact-checking and democracy as speakers at GlobalFact 12 - Poynter - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Democracy is messy, and thats a good thing - The Globe and Mail - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Letter to The Editor | Response to Democracy On A Budget - RVA Mag - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Theft from On High: Trumps Budget Bill Guts Medicaid, Medicare & More to Pay for Tax Cuts - Democracy Now! - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- The Biden cover-up and a credibility crisis that threatens democracy - JNS.org - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- The Worst Its Ever Been: U.K. Surgeon in Gaza Warns Kids Are Bearing Brunt as Israel Widens Assault - Democracy Now! - May 24th, 2025 [May 24th, 2025]
- Joe Concha says Democrats are squashing democracy, accuses them of holding fixed primaries - Fox News - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Justice Sotomayors Message to Lawyers: Stand Up, Fight and Win - Democracy Docket - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Is Germany protecting its democracy or suppressing free speech? - The Hill - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- U2 Legend Bono on Why the World Has Forgotten What Freedom and Democracy Mean - The Hollywood Reporter - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Lt. Gen. Charles D. Luckey on the Role of the Military in Upholding Democracy - RNS | Covering the world of religion. - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Battle for Democracy Plays Out in the Streets of Turkey - Stimson Center - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Distributing intimate images without consent isnt just a crime, its a threat to democracy - Virginia Mercury - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Is the AfD Too Extreme for Democracy? - The Atlantic - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- To protect democracy, we must hang together | Opinion - The Portland Press Herald - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Confronting the Threat to Democracy: A Call to Action for Arizona Business and Civic Leaders - The Fulcrum - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Congressional Agency Rebuffs Trump Bid to Expand Power Grab - Democracy Docket - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Letter | The river of democracy, rerouted - The Daily Progress - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- U.S. Allies Rally to Support Democracy and Come to Terms With a New U.S. Foreign Policy - Council on Foreign Relations - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Contemplating Democracy on the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia - International IDEA - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- New Ruling Cuts Off Key Tool to Protect Minority Voters - Democracy Docket - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Why libraries are the cornerstone of democracy in the words of just-fired Librarian of Congress - WGBH - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Editorial: Brave judges hold the line on democracy - Valley News - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Trumps Department of Education Has Become a Threat to Democracy - The Fulcrum - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Letters to the Editor: Congress, its time to right the ship before democracy capsizes - Los Angeles Times - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Salvadoran Journalists Exposed Pres. Bukeles Ties to Gangs. Then They Had to Flee to Avoid Arrest - Democracy Now! - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- Israel Kills 150 Palestinians in Gaza in Bloodiest Day Since It Shattered Ceasefire - Democracy Now! - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- What seems like the end is only the beginning Democracy and society - ips-journal.eu - May 17th, 2025 [May 17th, 2025]
- 'Beacon of freedom' dims as US initiatives that promote democracy abroad wither under Trump - AP News - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- Bulwark on Sunday: Our Democracy Is Actually Dying (w/ Daniel Ziblatt) - The Bulwark - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- For Many, the Democracy Israelis Fear Losing Never Existed in the First Place - Haaretz - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- Texans get a grueling lesson in democracy after driving to the Capitol to testify on a bill - Alternet - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- 'Destroy American democracy as we know it': Inside the GOP plot to attack your right to vote - Alternet - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]
- Protecting democracy is not enough: five things Americans must fight for | Huck Gutman - The Guardian - May 11th, 2025 [May 11th, 2025]