As Calls Grow to Impeach Trump, Former Nixon Counsel John Dean Sees "Echoes of Watergate" – Democracy Now!
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AMY GOODMAN: As of today, President Trump has been in office for 36 days. Theres already a growing chorus of voices calling for his impeachment. Nearly 900,000 people have signed an online petition entitled "Impeach Donald Trump Now." Thousands of protesters poured into the streets Monday for "Not My Presidents Day" marches across the country. Thousands more stormed Republican town halls this week to confront Republican leaders over their support for Trump.
Even the city of Richmond, California, has joined the movement. On Tuesday, the Richmond City Council voted unanimously to approve a resolution calling on Congress to consider Trumps impeachment, arguing Trump is in violation of the Constitutions Emoluments Clause, which prohibits people holding federal office from accepting payments from foreign governments.
The demand for Trumps impeachment comes as he presides over an understaffed White House in near constant crisis. This comes as White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus sought unsuccessfully to have the FBI refute news reports that Donald Trumps campaign advisers were in frequent contact with Russian intelligence agents ahead of Novembers election. Thats according to CNN, which reported on Thursday the FBI declined to publicly corroborate Priebuss denial. Priebuss outreach to the FBI violated policies intended to limit communications between the White House and the FBI on pending investigations. Priebus denied the reports during an interview Sunday on Meet the Press.
REINCE PRIEBUS: I know what they were told by the FBI, because Ive talked to the FBI. I know what theyre saying. I wouldnt be on your show right now telling you that weve been assured that theres nothing to The New York Times story, if I actually wasnt assuredand, by the way, if I didnt actually have clearance to make this comment.
AMY GOODMAN: Allegations of White House communications with the FBI during the investigation into Russias influence have raised questions about whether the Trump administration has violated ethics restrictions meant to protect such investigations from political influence. Theyve also drawn comparisons to former President Richard Nixons 1972 discussion with aides who used the CIA to push the FBI away from investigating the Watergate burglary that later led to Nixons resignation.
Will the constant chaos, confusion and conflicts of interest in the Trump administration lead to President Trumps impeachment? Well, for more, we go to someone whos been at the center of the unraveling of a presidency and a vote for impeachment. Thats right, President Richard Nixons White House counsel, John Dean. Hes the author of several books, including The Nixon Defense: What He Knew and When He Knew It and Conservatives Without Conscience, as well as Broken Government: How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches.
John Dean, welcome to Democracy Now!
JOHN DEAN: Good morning, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: So, we have 36 days so far into this presidency. It took a second term of office for President Nixon before the House Judiciary Committee voted on articles of impeachment against him. He would later resign, so he wasnt impeached. But can you talk about where Donald Trump is right now?
JOHN DEAN: Well, what I see and hear, in following it, are echoes of Watergate. If you recall, Watergate ran about 900 days. In other words, it went on for years, starting with a bungled burglary at the Democratic National Committee and right up to Richard Nixons resignation, followed by the conviction of his top aides. So it ran a long time. What were seeing is very accelerated. Its partially responsible because of the media and the technology today, but its also the behavior of Trump and his aides, as well as the medias vigilance on this. So were seeing things accelerated. And what I see or hear are echoes of Watergate. We dont have Watergate 2.0 yet, but we have something that is beginning to look like it could go there.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I wanted to turn right now to what took place in Richmond, California. It became the first U.S. city to call for an investigation into whether to impeach President Trump. A resolution approved by the Richmond City Council states Trump is in violation of the Emoluments Clause of the Constitution, which prohibits people holding federal office from accepting payments from foreign governments. These are some of the city officials who voted unanimously in favor of the impeachment resolution.
COUNCILMEMBER JAEL MYRICK: Ordinarily, it would be odd to be talking about thewell, everything about this administration is odd. But it would be odd to be talking about the impeachment of a president only a month into his term. Unfortunately, with this president, its oddly appropriate.
COUNCILMEMBER JOVANKA BECKLES: The word is very, very clear that the residents of these United States are not in alignment with his movement of hate, his movement of fear, his movement of bullying and intimidation, and his movement of just out-and-out lies.
AMY GOODMAN: Voices of the city councilmembers in Richmond, California. Do you think what theyre accusing President Trump of could lead to his impeachment?
JOHN DEAN: It could lead there, Amy, if the Republicans didnt control both houses of Congress. Its a beginning. It takes a lot of momentum, much more than one city. It takes hundreds of cities. It takes really a national change of attitude about this president before were going to have an impeachment. Right today, given the fact that the House and Senate are controlled by the Republicans, theyre not going to impeach their president. As long as he gives them what they want and signs into legislation or signs into law a lot of the things that theyve had in their dreams for many years, theyre not going to give him any problem. Soand hes not going to give them any problem, because he doesnt want to have a fight with them. So, its going to be a while. Impeachment is not a legal process. Its a quasi-legal process, but its primarily a political process. And were not there yet. Now, a lot of people might like it. Its not going to happen until the political process reaches that stage.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, let me ask you about this latest breaking news out of CNN and also The New York Times, White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus seeking unsuccessfully to have the FBI refute news reports that Donald Trumps campaign advisers were in frequent touch with Russian intelligence agents ahead of Novembers election, CNN also reporting Thursday the FBI declined to publicly corroborate Priebuss denial, Priebuss outreach to the FBI violating policies intended to limit communications between the White House and the FBI on pending investigations. And this goes back to Watergate, when you were at the White House.
JOHN DEAN: It does.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain what is improper here, and possibly what is illegal here? And talk about your position as White House counsel at the time. What were you seeing happening there? And what these allegationswhy they are so significant?
JOHN DEAN: Theres actually nothing illegal about talking to the FBI. Nobody has to talk to the FBI when they come to see them or knock on their door, unless theyre carrying a subpoena or acting directly for a grand jury. To my knowledge, theres no grand jury at this stage of any kind of inquiry into Mr. Trumps or his aides conduct. So, theres probably nothing overtly illegal. There is a policy that was written in the late 2000s between the FBI and anybody in the rest of the executive branch, or the Congress, for that matter, talking to them about a ongoing investigation. That appears to be the regulation that may have been violated. And what happened is, one of the assistant directors pulled Priebus aside in the White House after a meeting and just said The New York Times story is a little bit overboard.
AMY GOODMAN: McCabe of the FBI.
JOHN DEAN: Yes, yes, excuse methe FBI investigation was a little bit overboard as reported by The New York Times. And it was just a passing remark. And then Priebus tried, apparently, to reach back and get more out of them. And thats where he probably crossed the linea regulatory line, not a legal line. So, but this is a
AMY GOODMAN: This is pressuring both McCabe and then a call to the head of the FBI, Comey
JOHN DEAN: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: to get them to publicly say that these stories about the contact between Trumps people and Russia were not true.
JOHN DEAN: It was an effort on behalf of the White House that failed. Comey was not about to buy into it. He has an ongoing investigation, and he wasnt about to undercut it by giving that kind of comment to Priebus. So, thatthis investigation has to play out. And it will play out. It will play out on Capitol Hill. It will play out in the FBI.
Russia kind of breaks down into three categories. Theres the pre-election activity: Did the Trump campaign have contact with Russians and somehow know that they were hacking into the DNC, trying to hurt Hillary and help Trump? Thats the first question. Then theres the period between the election and the inauguration, when Flynn was having contact with the ambassador. Did the president, and how manywho else on his staff was involved in those efforts to try to possibly undercut the Obama administration? And, of course, the third big area that theyre investigating is: What is the truth or falsity of the dossier that appeared from the MI6 former employee, a fellow by the name of Steele, who reported what he was finding from some of his contacts in Russia as to whether or not Russia had compromised Donald Trump? Those are sort of the big three areas theyre looking at in the Russian investigation. And any one of those could cause Mr. Trump a serious problem.
AMY GOODMAN: Back in 1972, you had Richard Nixon discussing with aides using the CIA to push the FBI from investigating the Watergate burglary. Were you in on those discussions?
JOHN DEAN: What happened is, before that happened, I had been overI had been called over by the acting director of the FBI, Pat Gray, to have an update and a report. And I came back and reported to Haldeman what was going on. Its interesting, Amy. And Ive gone through every single Watergate conversation for the book I did, The Nixon Defense: What He Knew and When He Knew It. We transcribed everything, about 600 tapes that had never been heard before. So I tracked it from the beginning to the end. And what happened in that conversation is Haldeman sort of took what I told him and pushed it much further than either Mitchell or I thought appropriate, and tried to sell the president on this as being a tool to use the CIA to cut off the FBI. Now, that was later called an obstruction of justice. Im not sure, technically, it was. But what it did is it caught Richard Nixon in a lie, because he had denied he had known anything about any cover-up until I told him much later, when I started having direct dealings with him. And it was the lie that caught him more than that particular incident.
AMY GOODMAN: Were going to break and then come back to this discussion. Were talking to John Dean, who served as counsel to the presidentthat was President Nixonauthor of a number of books, including The Nixon Defense: What He Knew and When He Knew It and Conservatives Without Conscience, as well as Broken Government: How Republican Rule Destroyed the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial Branches. Well be back with him in a minute, and then well go to our exclusive interview with Seattle Seahawks football star Michael Bennett, why he chose not to go on an Israeli government-sponsored trip to Israel. Stay with us.
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As Calls Grow to Impeach Trump, Former Nixon Counsel John Dean Sees "Echoes of Watergate" - Democracy Now!
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