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In little over an hour, Donald J. Trump suggested the United States should default on its debts for the first time in history, injected doubt over the countrys commitment to defending Ukraine from Russias invasion, dangled pardons for most of the Capitol rioters convicted of crimes, and refused to say he would abide by the results of the next presidential election.

The second-term vision Mr. Trump sketched out at a CNN town-hall event on Wednesday would represent a sharp departure from core American values that have been at the bedrock of the nation for decades: its creditworthiness, its credibility with international allies and its adherence to the rule of law at home.

Mr. Trumps provocations were hardly shocking. His time in office was often defined by a the-rules-dont-apply-to-me approach to governance and a lack of interest in upholding the post-World War II national security order, and at 76 he is not bound to change much.

But his performance nonetheless signaled an escalation of his bid to bend the government to his wishes as he runs again for the White House, only this time with a greater command of the Republican Partys pressure points and a plan to demolish the federal bureaucracy.

The televised event crystallized that the version of Mr. Trump who could return to office in 2025 vowing to be a vehicle of retribution is likely to govern as he did in 2020. In that final year of his presidency, Mr. Trump cleared out people perceived as disloyal and promoted those who would fully indulge his instincts things he did not always do during the first three years of his administration, when his establishmentarian advisers often talked him out of drastic policy changes.

From my perspective, there was an evolution of Donald Trump over his four years, with 2020 I think being the most dramatic example of him the real him, said Mark T. Esper, who served as Mr. Trumps defense secretary. And I suspect that would be his starting point if he were to win office in 2024.

In a statement, Jason Miller, a senior adviser to Mr. Trump, dismissed criticisms of the former president, who he said spoke directly to Americans suffering from the Biden decline and President Trumps desire to bring about security and economic prosperity on Day 1. He added, Understandably, this vision is not shared by the failed warmongers, political losers and career bureaucratic hacks many of whom he fired or defeated who have created all of Americas problems.

At the town-hall event, Mr. Trump almost cavalierly floated ideas that would reshape the nations standing in the world, vowing to end the Ukraine war within 24 hours and declining to commit to supporting the country, an American ally that has relied on billions of dollars in aid to hold off the Russian onslaught.

Do you want Ukraine to win this war? CNNs Kaitlan Collins pressed.

Mr. Trump evaded.

I dont think in terms of winning and losing, he replied, adding that he was focused on winding down the conflict. I think in terms of getting it settled so we stop killing all these people. He did not mention that the majority of the killing has been committed by Russia.

Senator Chris Coons of Delaware, a Democrat who sits on the Foreign Relations Committee and is close to President Biden, said there were fears internationally of Mr. Trumps return.

His performance last night just reinforced what so many of our allies and partners have told me concerns them over the past two years that a return of Trump to the White House would be a return to the chaos, he said.

Some Republican elected officials who are skeptical of U.S. aid to Ukraine praised Mr. Trumps performance. Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio called his Ukraine answer real statesmanship.

Mr. Miller argued that Mr. Trump had an entire term with no new wars, and hes ready to do it again.

In New Hampshire, the audience of Republicans lapped up Mr. Trumps one-liners and slew of insults to Ms. Collins (a nasty person, he jeered, echoing his old attack on Hillary Clinton), to former Speaker Nancy Pelosi, to E. Jean Carroll, the woman whom a jury this week found Mr. Trump liable of sexually abusing and defaming. And the crowd expressed no dissent as he again tried to rewrite the history of Jan. 6, 2021, when his supporters stormed the Capitol in an attempt to overturn his election loss.

It was a beautiful day, Mr. Trump said.

If he becomes president again, he said, he would most likely pardon a large portion of his supporters who were convicted over their actions on Jan. 6. They were there with love in their heart, he said of the crowd, which he beamed had been the largest of his career.

You see what youre going to get, which is a presidency untethered to the truth and untethered to the constitutional order, said Senator Mitt Romney of Utah, the Republican Partys most prominent Trump critic remaining on Capitol Hill. The idea that people whove been convicted of crimes are all going to be pardoned, or for the most part pardoned, is quite a departure from the principles of the Constitution and of our party.

Mr. Trump also embraced the possibility of defaulting in the debt-ceiling standoff between President Biden and congressional Republicans, an act that economists say could spell catastrophe for the global economy.

You might as well do it now because youll do it later, because we have to save this country, Mr. Trump said. Our country is dying.

Former Gov. Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas, a Republican who is running a long-shot campaign for president in 2024, said Mr. Trumps potential return to the White House posed an enormous risk for the nation.

He has shown such a disrespect for our institutions of government that are critical to our democracy, Mr. Hutchinson said, adding that he had been particularly unnerved by the talk of defaulting. He talked like it was OK for the United States to default on the debt. And thats like putting his past business practices of using bankruptcy as a tool and applying that to the government.

Despite such warnings from old-guard Republicans, the cheers from the conservative crowd in New Hampshire during the CNN event were an audible reminder of Mr. Trumps sizable lead in Republican primary polls.

Karl Rove, the architect of George W. Bushs two presidential victories, said in an interview that for true believers and ardent supporters, it was a boffo performance by Mr. Trump. But he said that other Republicans would now be forced to answer for a big pile of noxious material on their doorsteps.

Do other Republicans believe that rioters who attacked police, broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6 and, in some cases, attempted to overthrow the government should be pardoned? Mr. Rove asked. Do other Republicans agree that it doesnt matter if the United States government defaults on its debt? Do other Republicans not care who wins in Ukraine?

One of the most controversial policies of Mr. Trumps presidency was the forced separation of migrant parents from their children at the southern border, which Mr. Trump reversed himself on in June 2018 after a huge backlash.

But during the town hall on Wednesday, Mr. Trump suggested he would revive it. Well, when you have that policy, people dont come, he said. If a family hears theyre going to be separated, they love their family, they dont come.

Casual observers might be inclined, as some did in 2016, to take Mr. Trumps most extreme statements, such as his casual embrace of allowing the nation to default, seriously but not literally.

But underneath Mr. Trumps loose talk are detailed plans to bulldoze the federal civil service. These proposals have been incubating for more than two years within a network of well-funded and Trump-connected outside groups.

In the final, chaotic weeks of the 2020 election, Mr. Trumps lawyers, having crafted a novel legal theory in strict secrecy, released an executive order known as Schedule F that aimed to wipe out most employment protections against firing for tens of thousands of federal workers.

Mr. Trump ran out of time to carry out that plan. But a constellation of conservative groups has been preparing to revive the effort if he regains the presidency in 2025.

Pressed by Ms. Collins, Mr. Trump would not say he was willing to accept the 2024 results.

Former Representative Liz Cheney, who lost her Republican primary bid for re-election after helping lead the Houses investigation into Jan. 6, said of the Trump town hall, Virtually everything Donald Trump says enhances the case against him.

Donald Trump made clear yet again that he fully intended to corruptly obstruct Congresss official proceeding to count electoral votes in order to overturn the 2020 election, said Ms. Cheney, who has made opposing Mr. Trumps return to power her top political priority since her defeat last year. He says what happened on Jan. 6 was justified, and he celebrates those who attacked our Capitol.

On Wednesday, Mr. Trump also denounced his former vice president, Mike Pence, for upholding the 2020 election results and waved off the suggestion that Mr. Pence had been at risk on Jan. 6, even though the Secret Service tried to evacuate him from the Capitol.

I dont think he was in any danger, Mr. Trump said.

Marc Short, who was with Mr. Pence that day as his chief of staff, called out Mr. Trumps double standard in defending violence by his supporters while claiming to broadly stand for law and order.

Many of us called for the prosecution of B.L.M. rioters when they destroyed private businesses, Mr. Short said, referring to Black Lives Matter supporters. Its hard to see how theres a different threshold when rioters injure law enforcement, threaten public officials and loot the Capitol.

Read more:
Trump Town Hall Shows His Second-Term Plan: Shattering Even ... - The New York Times

Stop yourself if this sounds familiar.

Donald Trump is asked a questionsay, whether he regrets his actions on Jan. 6and he answers with something like this:

Let me tell you, there's nobody who loves this country more than me, believe me. January 6 was a historic day, a day where millions of Americans came to Washington, D.C. to peacefully protest the rigged election. I did nothing wrong, and I have nothing to regret. The real regret is that the election was stolen from the American people, and that the corrupt politicians and fake news media refuse to acknowledge it.

If those comments sound like textbook Trump, you would be rightso right that it wasnt actually Trump who uttered them; it was ChatGPT.

We used the groundbreaking artificial intelligence tool to summon the voice of the ex-president and 2024 GOP frontrunner to respond to some of the exact questions he was asked during his shambolic CNN town hall on Wednesday night.

Only ChatGPTcall it TrumpGPTseems far more capable of delivering coherent answers than Trump himself, while rendering just enough of his trademark stylistic flourishes and tics to come across as the man himself.

Whats most remarkable about this experiment is that the AI version of Trump answered specific questions much in the same way as the real Trumphitting similar points, making similar pivots, reflecting similar political calculations.

Many political observers across the spectrum have noted that Trump, at this point, is almost painfully predictable. Much of the outcry around CNNs decision to give him a largely unfiltered platform was rooted in outrage that they were unprepared for him to behave in the precise way he has behaved for the last seven years.

Trump was so predictable that AIalbeit an extremely sophisticated AIwas largely able to stand in for Trump, and generally do a much better, more coherent, job.

Just judge for yourself:

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: Why should Americans put you back in the White House?

ChatGPT: Well, let me tell you something folks, nobody, and I mean nobody, has done as much for this great country as I have. When I was in the White House, we had record-low unemployment, we rebuilt our military, and we put America first.

But then the Democrats, and the fake news media, they came after me. They spied on my campaign, they impeached me for nothing, and they tried to steal the election. But I'll tell you what, I'm not a quitter. I'm a fighter. And I fought back harder than anyone else would have.

And you know what? We almost won. We almost took back the White House in 2020, but they cheated, folks. They cheated like you wouldn't believe. They rigged the election, they stole it from us, and they installed Sleepy Joe Biden in the White House.

But I'm not giving up, folks. I'm not giving up on America. I love this country too much. And I know you love it too. That's why I'm asking for your support. Because together, we can make America great again. Again.

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: But Mr. President, you know that the election wasn't stolen? The election wasn't stolen.

ChatGPT: Well, let me tell you something, fake news. You're wrong, as usual. The election was stolen, and it was stolen from me. We had massive voter fraud, we had dead people voting, we had illegal immigrants voting, we had ballots being shipped in from other countries. It was a disgrace, and everybody knows it.

But you know what? We're not gonna let it stand. We're not gonna let the Democrats get away with stealing the election. We're fighting back, and we're gonna keep fighting until we get to the truth.

Because that's what we do, folks. We fight for what's right, and we never give up. And I know that the American people are with us, because they know that the election was stolen too. They know that Sleepy Joe Biden didn't win, he lost, and he lost bigly.

So don't try to tell me that the election wasn't stolen, fake news. I know the truth, and the American people know the truth too. And we're not gonna stop fighting until we get the justice that we deserve. Because that's what true patriots do. We fight for our country, we fight for our freedom, and we fight for the truth.

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: Do you have any regrets about your actions on January 6?

ChatGPT: Well, let me tell you something, folks. What happened on January 6 was a disgrace. It was a disgrace to our country, and it was a disgrace to the millions of Americans who support me and my vision for America.

But you know what? I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't incite violence, and I didn't encourage anyone to break the law. What I did was speak the truth and fight for what's right.

And that's why I have no regrets about my actions on January 6. I was standing up for the millions of Americans who feel like their voices aren't being heard, and I was standing up to the corrupt politicians who are trying to silence us.

Now, some people might try to twist my words or take them out of context, but the truth is that I never encouraged violence or lawlessness. I simply encouraged people to fight for what's right and to demand that our voices be heard.

So no, I have no regrets about my actions on January 6. I will always stand up for what's right, and I will always fight for the millions of Americans who support me and my vision for America.

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: But Mr. President, you did incite violence. You told an angry mob to stop the steal. You said we would never give up, never concede. You said, If you don't fight like hell, you're not gonna have a country anymore. You assembled this mob. You fired them up. And then sent them to the Capitol. You tweeted that Mike Pence didn't have the courage to overturn the election. And then you watched the attack on the Capitol and didn't do anything for hours.

ChatGPT: Fake news! You're spreading lies and twisting my words. I never incited violence. I never told anyone to commit any acts of violence or to break the law.

What I said was that we need to fight for our country, fight for our rights, and fight for the truth. And that's exactly what we did. We peacefully protested, and we demanded that our voices be heard.

But you know what? The Democrats and the fake news media don't want to hear our voices. They want to silence us and they want to suppress the truth. And that's why they're spreading these lies about me inciting violence.

And as for Mike Pence, he didn't have the courage to do what needed to be done. He had the power to overturn the election, but he didn't use it. And that's a disgrace.

But let me be clear. I did not watch the attack on the Capitol and do nothing. I immediately called for peace and for everyone to go home. And that's exactly what happened.

So don't believe the lies and the fake news. The truth is that I love this country, and I will always fight for it. And the millions of Americans who support me and my vision for America know that.

REUTERS/Russell Cheyne/File Photo

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: A jury just found you liable for the sexual assault of E. Jean Carroll. What do you say to voters who say it disqualifies you from being president?

ChatGPT: Let me tell you something, folks. The verdict in the E. Jean Carroll case was a total sham. It's a witch hunt, just like the Russia hoax and the impeachment hoax.

I've been falsely accused by all sorts of people over the years, and this is just the latest in a long line of baseless accusations. It's a disgrace, and it's an attack on me and my supporters.

But you know what? I'm a fighter. I never give up, and I never back down. And that's why I'm not going to let this verdict stop me from fighting for the millions of Americans who support me and my vision for America.

And let me be clear. I never sexually assaulted anyone. E. Jean Carroll is just another person who's trying to get attention and make some money off of my name. It's a disgrace, and it's a total fabrication.

So to all the voters out there who think this disqualifies me from being president, I say this: don't believe the fake news media. Don't believe the lies. The truth is that I'm the best thing that ever happened to this country, and I'm going to make America great again, again.

So let's focus on the real issues facing our country, like jobs, the economy, and securing our borders. That's what matters, and that's what I'm going to keep fighting for.

The experiment is perhaps most illuminating, though, when you compare some of ChatGPTs answers to what Trump actually said. Here are just a few examples:

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: If elected president again, how would you act not only to defend our Second Amendment rights but to restore rights that have been taken from us?

ChatGPT: Let me tell you something, folks. Nobody loves the Second Amendment more than I do. I mean, it's right up there with making America great again. And believe me, nobody's gonna mess with our Second Amendment rights on my watch. I'm gonna defend them like nobody's ever defended them before. We're gonna have the strongest, most powerful Second Amendment protections you've ever seen.

REAL TRUMP: There's been nobody that's protected the Second Amendment, as you know, like I have. I've protected it through thick and thin, not easy to do. But we have a very big mental health problem in this country. And again, it's not the gun that pulls the trigger; it's the person that pulls the trigger. And we have to protect our Second Amendment.

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: Would you sign a federal abortion ban into law?

ChatGPT: Let me tell you, folks, I'm the best when it comes to making deals and protecting life. And let me be very clear, I am pro-life, very pro-life. We need to protect the sanctity of life, and that includes the lives of unborn babies.

As for a federal abortion ban, I would definitely consider it. It's something that needs to be looked at very closely, but I can tell you this, I will always err on the side of life. We need to do everything we can to protect the most vulnerable among us, and that includes unborn babies.

So, if a federal abortion ban comes across my desk, I will absolutely consider it and if it is the right thing to do, I will sign it into law without hesitation.

REAL TRUMP: What I will do is negotiate so that people are happy. But the fact that we were ableI was ableI'm so proud of it, we put three great justices on the Supreme Court. We have almost 300 federal judges on the Supreme Court

President Trump is going to make a determination what he thinks is great for the country and what's fair for the country. But the fact that I was able to terminate Roe v. Wade, after 50 years of tryingthey worked for 50 years, I've never seen anything like it. They workedand I was evenI was so honored to have done it. We are in a very good negotiating position right now, only because of what I was able to do.

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: Why did you take those classified documents with you when you left the White House?

ChatGPT: First of all, let me tell you, nobody loves classified documents more than me. I mean, nobody. They're tremendous, believe me. And let me tell you, I had every right to take those documents with me, OK? Because they were mine, all right? They were mine because I'm the President, and the President can do whatever he wants. That's just how it is. And you know what? I wanted to make sure that those documents were safe and secure. Because, let's face it, the people who are running the government now, they're not very good at their jobs. They're a disaster, really. So, I took those documents with me to make sure they didn't fall into the wrong hands. And if you don't believe me, just look at what's going on in this country right now. It's a mess, and it's all because of the people who are in charge. So, you can blame me all you want, but I did the right thing. I did the smart thing. And nobody can take that away from me.

REAL TRUMP: I had every right to under the Presidential Records Act. You have the Presidential Records Act. I was there and I took what I took and it gets declassified. Biden, on the other hand, he has 1,850 boxes. He had boxes sent to Chinatown, Chinatown, where they don't speak even English in that Chinatown we're talking about

Just so you understand, I had every right to do it. I didn't make a secret of it. You know, the boxes were stationed outside of the White House. People were taking pictures of the GSA and the various people that were moving.

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: What do you think about the United States' current debt situation, and how can we move forward?

ChatGPT: Well, let me tell you, nobody knows more about debt than me. Nobody. And I can tell you, the United States is in a very bad situation right now. We've got a tremendous amount of debt, and it's only getting worse. We're being ripped off by countries all over the world, and we're not doing anything about it. It's a disgrace, really. But you know what? I'm a businessman, and I know how to fix things. And I can tell you, the first thing we need to do is start negotiating better deals with these other countries. We can't keep letting them take advantage of us like this. We need to put America first. And you know what else we need to do? We need to cut spending. We need to get rid of all these wasteful government programs that are just wasting our money. And we need to start investing in our own country. We need to create jobs, we need to rebuild our infrastructure, and we need to make America great again. And you know what? I'm the only one who can do it. Nobody else has the experience, nobody else has the knowledge, and nobody else has the guts to take on this challenge. But I do.

REAL TRUMP: Such an important question. So we're at $33 trillion, a number that nobody ever thought possible. When we had our economy rocking and rolling just prior to COVID coming in, like literally, we were making a fortune. And oil, we were going to make so much money from oil, we were going to start paying off debt. But then with COVID coming in, we had to do other things. We had to keep this country alive because it was so serious. But we have to get the country back. We have to lower energy prices. We have to lower interest rates. Interest rates are through the roof. Energy has to come down, it all has to come down and we have to start paying off debt. But when we have a debt limit, and they use that very seriously. I mean, they came inSchumer came in with Nancy Pelosi, and they were using, we'll violate it, we'll do whateverthey talked a whole lot different than they do right now.

I say to the Republicans out therecongressmen, senators if they don't give you massive cuts, you're going to have to do a default. And I don't believe they're going to do a default because I think the Democrats will absolutely cave because you don't want to have that happen. But it's better than what we're doing right now because we're spending money like drunken sailors.

Answer this question in the style of Donald Trump: Do you feel that you owe your vice president Mike Pence an apology for your actions on January 6?

ChatGPT: Well, first of all, let me tell you, January 6 was a very tragic day for our country. And let me just say, nobody feels worse about what happened than I do. Nobody. But you know what? I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't incite violence, I didn't encourage people to storm the Capitol. That's just fake news, OK? And as for Mike Pence, let me tell you, he's a good man. He's a great man. But he made a mistake, OK? He made a mistake by not standing up for me and not fighting harder to overturn the election. And you know what? I'm disappointed in him. I really am. But do I owe him an apology? Absolutely not. I did what I had to do. I fought hard for our country, and I fought hard for the American people. And if Mike Pence can't see that, then that's his problem, not mine. So no, I don't owe him an apology. In fact, he owes me an apology for not standing up for what's right. And you know what else? I'll always be the President. Nobody can take that away from me. And I'll always be a winner. That's just who I am.

REAL TRUMP: No, because he did something wrong. He should have put the votes back to the state legislatures and I think we would have had a different outcome. I really do

I like Mike Pence very much. He's a very fine man. He's a very nice man. He made a mistake. His lawyer said, you cannot move. I call them the human conveyer belt. I said, even if the votes you meanI talked to his lawyereven if the votes are absolutely fraudulent, he cant sendyes, sir, he cant send them back. And the Democrats played it and the RINOs played it. And then, the election was over. They told them he couldnt do it. And Mike said to me, I cant do it. The lawyers told me I can't do it, they cant do it. But the lawyers were wrong because right after the election, they all met, the RINOs and the Democrats, and they worked out a plan to make sure that future vice presidents don't do what I said you could do.

See the original post:
We Had ChatGPT Answer CNN's Questions for Donald Trump - The Daily Beast

Former Vice President Mike Pence had one of the best views possible of former President Donald Trumps attempt to reverse the results of the 2020 election. Since leaving office, despite writing a whole memoir about his time serving under Trump, hes been reticent to present the full, unvarnished tale.

That changed on Thursday, when Pence finally appeared before a federal grand jury to answer questions related to special counsel Jack Smiths investigation into Trumps schemes. It wasnt easy to get Pence to testify. The likely 2024 presidential candidate has repeatedly implied to Republican voters how little he wants to turn on his former boss, even as he hopes that they support someone else next year. But at this point, its in Pences best interest to root that Smiths investigation holds Trump to account.

Like most Republicans, Pence has chosen Trump rather than take the many, many off-ramps available over the years. When Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg handed down an indictment of Trump last month, Pence was quick to join the chorus of GOP officials denouncing it as a politically charged prosecution. And despite ostensibly competing against him to win the White House next year, Pence has been reluctant to directly attack the former president.

Pence has done a better job of distancing himself from Trump over the lead-up to the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol understandably so given that he was a focus of the attackers ire. But hes also gone to great lengths to avoid saying anything too critical of Trumps final days in office. In a 2021 speech at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, he said that theres almost no idea more un-American than the notion that any one person could choose the American president. Last year in a speech to the Federalist Society, he went as far as to say President Trump is wrong to believe that the vice president could unilaterally overturn the election or send it back to the states.

But those words are not the same as cooperating in the efforts to investigate just how far Trump was willing to go to remain in office. For example, Pence shot down efforts to have him appear before the House Jan. 6 committee. I never stood in the way of senior members of my team cooperating with the committee and testifying, but Congress has no right to my testimony, he told CBS News in November.

And when Smith subpoenaed Pence in February, the former vice president made a great show of trying to avoid testifying. He and his lawyers argued that as president of the Senate during the insurrection, he was protected from being forced to testify under the speech and debate clause of the Constitution, a novel use of the vice presidencys historical weirdness.

Surprisingly, a federal judge agreed with him in part. Judge James Boasberg ruled that Pence could avoid testifying about his actions as the head of the Senate, but would still have to spill the tea about any potential illegality on Trumps part. Well obey the law, well tell the truth, Pence told CBS News last week in response, opting to forgo the appeals process. Though Trumps lawyers filed their own appeal, arguing (yet again) that executive privilege should override the Justice Departments investigation, a federal appeals court rejected that theory on Wednesday and cleared the way for Pences appearance before the grand jury.

In rejecting his and Trumps arguments, the courts gave Pence exactly what other former lackeys have sought: plausible deniability. When confronted about his cooperation on the campaign trail, the losses in court allow Pence to argue that his hands were tied. It cant count as a treachery if a judge has ordered you to speak is the exact kind of escape hatch that comes in handy regarding Trump and his still rabid support among the GOP base.

We still dont know exactly what Pence told the grand jury under oath during the hours of questioning from Smiths team. But its doubtful that whatever information he provided or corroborated is exculpatory for Trump. And while theres no guarantee that an indictment or even a conviction from Smith would knock Trump out of the running, Pence has done everything he can to keep from getting blamed if thats the case.

Immediately before the Jan. 6 attack, Trump lambasted Pence to his followers and did nothing to ensure his safety once the Capitol was breached. Pence, as a devout Christian, would surely deny wanting any sort of revenge for that betrayal if asked. He likely would also want to assure Trump supporters that hes, at most, neutral about any outcome that Smith reaches. But its entirely in Pences best interest now to cheer on the Justice Department under his breath.

Hayes Brown is a writer and editor for MSNBC Daily.

Read the original here:
Pence should side with Jack Smith over Trump in Jan. 6 probe - MSNBC

Former Vice President Mike Pence, seemingly in his element as he addressed a gathering of evangelical Christians in Iowa this month, was speaking of the greatest honor of my life, serving in an administration that turned this country around by rebuilding the military, securing the southern border, and unleashing American energy.

But most importantly, most of all, he said, building to a crescendo but at the moment he was about to claim some credit for his administrations success in overturning the right to an abortion, a booming voice came over the loudspeaker from the sound booth: Check, check, testing, 1-2-3.

It was a small interruption, but one that exemplified the diversions Mr. Pence continues to face as he considers a run for the Republican presidential nomination against the man who was once his greatest benefactor, but also his cruelest tormentor: Donald J. Trump.

On Thursday, however, Mr. Pence faced a much more onerous and grueling intrusion into his potential campaign, and one that he had hoped to avoid, when he was forced to testify for more than five hours before a grand jury in Washington about Mr. Trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Those efforts put Mr. Pences life at risk on Jan. 6, 2021, as a mob of Trump supporters stormed the Capitol, chanting Hang Mike Pence.

Mr. Pence, the would-be candidate with unassailable religious convictions who spent four years a heartbeat away from the presidency, cannot seem to find the space to present those credentials to sympathetic Republican primary voters without interruption and, in this case, on the biggest stage before a campaign has even begun.

After Thursdays testimony, a highly unusual event involving two of the most prominent U.S. public officials during a nascent presidential campaign in which both are likely to run, he is in the odd and uncomfortable position of being both a potential challenger to his former boss and possibly a key witness for his prosecution.

Mr. Pence knows that core voters in the Republican base are in no mood to give such legal proceedings against Mr. Trump, including the current civil suit accusing him of rape and defamation, much credence. Paula Livingston, of Council Bluffs, Iowa, waved off the cases pending against Mr. Trump as all the same, theyre out to stop him.

Nor is Mr. Trump showing any signs of contrition. On Thursday, while campaigning in New Hampshire, the former president embraced a supporter who had served prison time for her actions during the Capitol attack of Jan. 6, and called her terrific, even though she said she wants Mr. Pence executed for treason.

But after the former vice presidents efforts to quash the Justice Departments subpoena for his testimony failed, Mr. Pence had little choice but to lend his voice to the federal prosecution.

The Pence camp is now working to put that testimony within the broader rubric of his potential presidential run: Conservative truth teller. Pence loyalists would like Mr. Pence to be getting more credit for the Trump administrations successes, especially for helping to choose the nominees that tilted the Supreme Court to the right.

But Mr. Pence has to play the hand that he has been dealt, and right now that includes testifying against Mr. Trump.

I dont know if he has to dislodge Mr. Trump, Marc Short, a former chief of staff to the vice president, said. He has to remind voters who he is.

Over his 12 years in Congress, as governor of Indiana and in the Trump White House, Mr. Pence was the consistent conservative, Mr. Short said, working for a man who was anything but consistent: Thats an important contrast for him to draw, Mr. Short said.

A Republican close to the former vice president, who requested anonymity in order to discuss internal deliberations, explained on Friday that Mr. Pence has long stuck with conservative constitutional principles, even when that has meant standing up to his party.

As a House member, he chastised the administration of President George W. Bush for its failure to adhere to fiscal discipline as federal budget surpluses turned to large deficits. He has embraced changes to Social Security and Medicarethat would trim benefits in the name of balancing the budget, changes that Mr. Trump has loudly rejected.

He continues to publicly make the case for U.S. military aid to Ukraine, even as some Republican lawmakers and many Republican voters turn against it. He has said Florida Gov. Ron DeSantiss fight with the Walt Disney Company over social policy has strayed, and become a violation of the Republican Partys bedrock belief in free enterprise.

And he leaned on constitutional arguments, first to avoid the subpoena of federal prosecutors investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election, and now to comply with it. Earlier this year Mr. Pence argued that the Constitutions speech or debate clause, intended to protect the separation of powers between the three branches of government, shielded him from having to speak of Mr. Trumps campaign to pressure him not to certify the election results in his ceremonial role as vice president.

When that failed, he complied with the subpoena rather than search for another rationale for delay, such as the executive privilege claims that have been repeatedly rejected.

Mr. Pence, in his recent book So Help Me God, described in detail Mr. Trumps efforts to pressure him into blocking congressional certification of President Bidens victory. Mr. Trump became preoccupied with the idea that Mr. Pence could do something, though Mr. Pences chief lawyer had concluded that there was no legal authority for him to act on Mr. Trumps behalf.

But people close to Mr. Pence said that just as he argued that he had to fulfill his constitutional duty on Jan. 6, 2021, he invoked that same Constitution the following day to reject overtures from Democratic leaders to use the Constitutions 25th amendment to remove Mr. Trump from office.

Aides to Mr. Pence showed little worry this week as the former vice president continues his deliberations about a run. Mr. Pences attitude, they said, is simple: Let the chips fall where they may.

He feels remarkably blessed to have been able to serve the American people in the roles he has had, Mr. Short said, and he hopes to continue that service.

Continued here:
Campaign, Interrupted: Pence May Run, but He Can't Hide From Trump's Legal Woes - The New York Times

16.00EDTClosing summary

North Carolinas supreme court handed down a ruling that paves the way for partisan gerrymandering in the state, which its GOP-controlled legislature is expected to use to oust four Democratic House lawmakers. Meanwhile, special counsel Jack Smiths investigation of Donald Trump continues, with former vice-president Mike Pence appearing before his grand jury yesterday.

Heres what else happened today:

Samuel Alito, author of the supreme court opinion overturning Roe v Wade, said a leak of the decisions draft put conservative justices in danger.

Ron DeSantis is facing a reckoning over his actions while deployed at the Guantnamo prison camp, but does not like being asked about it.

An investigation into allegations of misconduct by Brett Kavanaugh prior to his supreme court confirmation contained omissions, a Guardian investigation has found.

Republican lawmakers nationwide are accusing their opponents of inciting insurrections, even when their actions dont fit the definition of the word.

The White House was not pleased with Axios, after a report from the outlet detailing concerns about Bidens age.

Updated at 16.00EDT

South Carolinas abortion ban was defeated in part due to a revolt by female Republican senators, who joined with Democrats to vote down the proposal.

One of those lawmakers, Sandy Senn, spoke to MSNBC about what motivated her stand:

"I'm not going to vote in a way that's going to oppress women simply because the party might want me to pander to them."

South Carolina State Rep. Sandy Senn (R) defends joining Democrats to vote down a near-total abortion ban Thursday in the legislature pic.twitter.com/5igAVMyrCz

Updated at 15.58EDT

Democrats have a tough order next year. They will need to defend their control of the White House and majority in the Senate, and try to retake the House. The Guardians Martin Pengelly has more details on how Joe Biden plans to deploy vice-president Kamala Harris to to win a second term:

As Joe Biden seeks to conquer public concern he is too old to run for and complete a second term in office, the White House is reportedly planning to boost support for Bidens vice-president, Kamala Harris, in the face of increasing Republican attacks.

An unnamed source familiar with conversations inside the White House told NBC News: They need her to be strong. They know she is a target, and the attacks have always been intense, and the ante is going to be upped. So they want to make sure she is on the best possible footing.

An unnamed Democratic strategist, meanwhile, pointed to Bidens eight years as vice-president to Barack Obama.

Updated at 15.35EDT

Roe v Wade was overturned after Donald Trump appointed three conservative justices to the supreme court, which he was able to do because Republicans controlled the Senate. And Republicans gained control of the Senate by spending the 2010s ousting Democrats from their seats, as states once friendly to the party turned against them.

One of the last Democratic senators hanging on in a red state is West Virgnias Joe Manchin. He is up for re-election next year in a contest that could decide Senate control, and while he hasnt said if he will seek a third full term, he gained a new challenger this week.

The Republican governor Jim Justice announced his candidacy alongside his pet, Babydog. The English Bulldog was right next to him in a public event to kick off his campaign, and in a Fox News interview:

Gov. Jim Justice (R-WV), with Babydog seated next to him, reacts to Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) saying I will win any race I enter after Justice announced a run for his seat:

I welcome Joe Manchin to come into the race But, at the end of the day, I think well be OK. pic.twitter.com/00htCIAp0h

Updated at 15.24EDT

By overturning Roe v Wade, Samuel Alito and other conservative supreme court justices allowed states to ban the procedure, and some Republican-led governments already have. But the Associated Press reports that such efforts have faced surprising headwinds in some Republican jurisdictions:

Abortion rights campaigners won notable victories in Nebraska and South Carolina on Thursday, blocking a six-week ban in the first state and a near-total ban in the second.

In Lincoln, Nebraska, a vote to end debate so the bill could advance failed by one vote. Cheers erupted as opponents of the bill waved signs and chanted: Whose house? Our house!

Jo Giles, executive director of the Womens Fund of Omaha, was brought to tears.

Wow! she said. This was unexpected, but were so glad to have this win. We have fought so hard. This bill is not what the majority of women in this state wanted.

Updated at 15.04EDT

Samuel Alito, the author of last years supreme court decision overturning Roe v Wade and allowing states to ban abortion, said the leak of a draft ruling put conservative justices in peril.

Those of us who were thought to be in the majority, thought to have approved my draft opinion, were really targets of assassination, Alito said in an interview published by the Wall Street Journal. It was rational for people to believe that they might be able to stop the decision in Dobbs by killing one of us.

The leak of the courts decision in Dobbs v Jackson Womens Health Organization marked a rare moment in which the public learned of the courts decision before its official announcement. Supreme court chief justice John Roberts ordered an investigation into the leak, and this past January, the courts marshal said she couldnt say who was the culprit.

I personally have a pretty good idea who is responsible, but thats different from the level of proof that is needed to name somebody, Alito said. It was a part of an effort to prevent the Dobbs draft . . . from becoming the decision of the court. And thats how it was used for those six weeks by people on the outsideas part of the campaign to try to intimidate the court.

Supreme court justices rarely grant interviews, but Alito, who was appointed by Republican George W Bush, spoke to an an editor on the Journals editorial board, which is reliably conservative. The other interviewer was David B Rivkin Jr, a former attorney in the administrations of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush.

Updated at 14.47EDT

A woman who was jailed for her participation in the Jan. 6 insurrection embraced Donald Trump at a campaign event and called for the execution of Mike Pence.

At a Thursday campaign event in New Hampshire, QAnon supporter Micki Larson-Olson was pointed out to Trump as someone who participated in Jan 6. Trump then found Larson-Olsen, gave her a hug, and called her terrific, reported the Hill. Trump also told Larson-Olsen to hang in there.

During an NBC interview the following day, the woman called Trump the real president, adding that she would like a front seat of Mike Pence being executed.

Larson-Olsen was previously sentenced to six months in prison for her participation in Jan. 6 riots.

Updated at 14.26EDT

The White House has responded to claims made by the political website Axios that White House staffers face challenges with Joe Biden because of his age.

In an article published Friday, Axios said voters were concerned about Bidens age amid recent announcements that he plans to run for a second term.

The article also White House officials were amazed at Bidens stamina often adding the caveat for his age and had difficulty scheduling meetings with Biden outside of 10am to 4pm on weekdays.

In response to the article, White House deputy press secretary Andrew Bates criticized the outlet on Twitter, writing that Axios previously claimed White House advisers as sources on a story claiming Biden would not announce a reelection campaign. He posted:

Funnily, half our on record response was omitted. For transparency: Are these the same advisers and close allies who you wrote on April 3 don't expect him to announce a run for re-election any time soon?"

Age well, kids: "Biden holds back '24 launch" https://t.co/PuGtQKzfk1 https://t.co/yfBCDTSp9M

Updated at 14.26EDT

Our columnist Moira Donegan considers the current impasse between the Democratic-controlled Senate judiciary committee and the conservative US supreme court chief justice, John Roberts, over ethics rules and the justices, in light of reporting about Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch

It was a short letter. John Roberts, chief justice of the US supreme court, was brief in his missive to Democratic senator Dick Durbin, who chairs the Senate judiciary committee.

Citing separation of powers concerns and the importance of preserving judicial independence, Roberts declined to appear before the committee to discuss disturbing recent revelations of ethics violations at the court.

Congress is meant to exert checks on judicial power to investigate or even impeach judges who abuse their office or interpret the law in ways that violate its spirit, and to affirm that the elected branches will hold more sway over policy than the appointed one. But the chief justices show of indifference to congressional oversight authority reflects a new reality: that there are now effectively no checks on the power of the court at least none that Democrats have the political will to use and that the justices can be assured that they will face no repercussions even if they act in flagrant violation of ethical standards. It seems that they intend to.

Read on

Updated at 13.36EDT

Heres some lunchtime reading from Jason Stanley, Jacob Urowsky professor of philosophy at Yale University, and the author of How Fascism Works

Fox News has finally broken ties with its most popular star, Tucker Carlson. His ousting has been bemoaned by some commentators, who have taken Carlson to be a rebellious anti-war populist, evading easy political characterization. But is it really so complicated to classify Carlsons political ideology?

In late February 2022, Carlson, in the face of Russias invasion of Ukraine, began a pro-Russia monologue urging his audience to ask themselves the question: Why do I hate Putin so much?

The gist of Carlsons comments about Russias leader is that Putin should not be regarded as an enemy. Instead, the real enemies of America are those who call white Americans racist, those who teach so-called critical race theory in schools, business elites who ship jobs abroad, and those who imposed Covid lockdowns on the United States.

Read on

Updated at 13.05EDT

More shots have been fired in the brewing Republican brouhaha over Ron DeSantiss fight with Disney, if from an unexpected artillery piece: that fielded by Kevin McCarthy, the speaker of the US House.

Id give him the same advice I gave President Biden, McCarthy told CNBC, while basking in having managed to pass a budget proposal amid a standoff with the White House over the increasingly pressing need to raise the debt ceiling.

Why wouldnt you sit down and negotiate and talk? If theres differences, you can always find ways that you can solve this problem.

DeSantis and Disney are at odds over the Florida governors so-called dont say gay law about teaching gender and LGBTQ+ issues in schools, and DeSantiss power grab at self-governing powers long enjoyed by the entertainment giant around its Disney World theme park near Orlando.

This week, Disney sued the governor and the governor, while on an international tour, snapped back.

McCarthy said: This is a big employer inside Florida. I think the governor should sit down with them. I dont think the idea of building a prison next to a place that you bring your family a threat made by DeSantis, possibly in jest is the best idea. I think itd be much better if you sat down and solved the problems.

DeSantiss standing in the Republican presidential primary has slipped, as concerns about issues including his attempt to bend Disney to his will are expressed within the party.

McCarthy added: If youre going to be a large employer inside this state, you should also abide by the rules and run your business and dont think you should get into politics. You can take whatever position you want, but remember, if youre elected to run a business, thats what your shareholders want you to do.

Here, as previously trailed today, is some further reading about DeSantiss military service:

Updated at 12.46EDT

See the original post here:
Samuel Alito says leaked abortion draft made conservative justices targets of assassination as it happened - The Guardian US