By Gregory Krieg CNN  
    (CNN) -- Relegated for decades to the back benches of American    political life, a resurgent socialism, championed by figures    like Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, is emboldening a new    generation of mostly young, tech-savvy progressive activists    and organizers.  
    Over eight months, beginning with President Donald Trump's    election victory and throughout the chaotic beginning of his    administration, the Democratic Socialists of America have seen    a massive spike in their ranks, from 8,000 in November to more    than 25,000 as this week's biannual national convention begins    in Chicago.  
    DSA members were on the front lines of the fight against    Republican plans to overhaul Obamacare, often marching    alongside more moderate protesters in defense of the law. And    they are a vocal part of the emerging coalition in support of a    single-payer health care system, or "Medicare for all." But    their ambitions are broader, with plans now to redraw the    boundaries of socialism's influence in a country that has been    traditionally hostile to similar movements.  
    Activist Charles Lenchner, a New Yorker who worked on former    Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich's 2004 presidential campaign and    co-founded groups like Ready for Warren, in support of    Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, and The People for Bernie    Sanders, is running for DSA's National Political Committee this    weekend. We spoke about the future of DSA, the opportunities    and roadblocks up ahead, and his candidacy. (The interview has    been condensed and slightly edited for clarity.)  
    Krieg: You've been around the world as an activist and an    organizer, most recently as a member of DSA and co-founder of    Ready for Warren and The People for Bernie Sanders. How did you    get started?  
    Lenchner: In high school. Israel, where I spent most of those    years, has lots of political parties and all of them cultivate    youth leagues, so there is a lot more going on, as opposed to    in the United States where you don't have political parties in    a parliamentary sense. So there isn't really an infrastructure    that exists at all levels that gets young people interested and    involved.  
    At age 15 or 16, I assumed people were curious about each other    and connect and see what's up. I thought that Arab citizens    would be as interested in connecting with me as I was with    them. I can now laugh at that, but that's how I felt at the    time. It was very wholesome. Most wholesome I've ever been.  
    And then, as the army got closer, I became more left-wing and    more invested in figuring out how to end Israel's occupation    and more ideological because I saw that it was really just the    left that was trying to end it. So I got involved in left-wing    organizations.  
    Over a year before my draft date I organized a youth group and    this youth group recruited people who pledged to refuse to    serve in the Occupied Territories. Think of me as a high school    senior meeting every week with other young people who are all    intent on being jailed. We were going to be drafted, go to    basic training, and then they'll send us to the West Bank and    we'll say no, and then we'll go to jail. That was plan.  
    And that's what happened. I was the first one of the group to    be drafted and the first one to be sent to the West Bank and    the first one to be sent to prison. All in all I spent about    two months in Israeli military prison during the First Intifada    for refusing orders to serve there.  
    I was already fully committed to left-wing politics, but    imagine living your life knowing that you survived two months    in prison. It's very hard to become demoralized. I've been in    solitary confinement for weeks at a time. What are you going to    throw at me now?  
    Krieg: How does someone go from the experience you just    described -- entering left politics as a young person,    organizing, being jailed -- to your life this past decade, when    you've mostly worked for or on behalf of relatively mainstream    politicians, like Dennis Kucinich, and causes?  
    Lenchner: It was a long process. I've been continuously in the    US for about 17 years now. In those years, I started off    working for organizations that were based in the Middle East    and then I moved into politics by working with Kucinich in    2003. It was a very long, slow process of becoming a more    professional activist and understanding the world I'm operating    in. I'm still learning and careful not to pretend to be that    guy who knows everything. I'm not. But the left has a tendency    to put itself in this self-imposed ghetto. For me, it was    always clear that the best place to be in politics is where the    energy is. And being able to participate in mainstream    movements isn't a contradiction to being a leftist. I would    turn it around and say, if you want to be a good leftist, how    can you defend not being where the people are?  
    Krieg: DSA is growing, obviously, but a 300% or 400% spike in    membership doesn't happen if you're healthy to begin with or if    you'd had more than a few thousand people as late as last    Election Day. The organization has been around for decades. Why    did it become so stagnant -- and why is it multiplying now?  
    Lenchner: The reason why it grew so rapidly is a combination of    Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.  
    It is a reminder that while individuals and organizations have    a certain amount of power, the circumstances that we exist    within, those are the determining things. The people that have    carried the torch for DSA for years may have asked themselves,    What are we doing? Handful of people meeting in living rooms,    having meetings that attract few new members. What are we doing    here? Now, we know. They were keeping the organization intact    for this moment. In that sense, it's a reminder that you may    sometimes feel as though you're not in the center of things the    way you want to be, but everyone has a role. And all those DSA    folks who kept the torch alive for all those decades when it    wasn't as prominent -- we would not be here if not for them. We    owe them everything.  
    Krieg: Beyond the reaction to Trump and the energy created or    channeled, or both, by Sanders, why is this group now growing    so fast -- and what is going to take to keep that up beyond    these current circumstances?  
    Lenchner: We're an organization that is simultaneously    socialist, but also very rooted in a real world of politics.    We've participated in Democratic Party primaries like with    Bernie Sanders and in other elections around the country. We    have a tradition of not being outside the political system, but    just on its left edge. That's true for us in a way that is not    true for a lot of other left wing organizations. That meant    that we were in the position where we could really grow.  
    Also, because DSA had so few chapters and, in a sense, because    DSA was small, it meant that new people joining the    organization had the real feeling that they could make it their    own. If we were a stronger, more robust organization eight    months ago, then people joining us would have been swallowed up    by a whole system ready to instruct new members. Instead, we    opened up the doors to 15,000 people who now have the challenge    of figuring out what they want the organization to be. We're    lucky that DSA is the kind of open organization where that is    the kind of challenge that is welcomed and not seen as a    threat.  
    Krieg: So when a political organization, especially one    dedicated to democratic principles, quadruples in size it is    effectively a different thing. Most of the people who are    members now were not a year ago. How does DSA keep manage its    identity now when, as we'll see this weekend, rival factions    begin to emerge and potentially clash?  
    Lenchner: Let me answer that this way: my head is at -- I'm    imagining us as an organization of 100,000 members and I keep    asking myself, What are things going to look like then?  
    What are the kinds of realities that we're going to face if we    grow another 500% of the next few years? What is it going to    look like when we elect multiple DSA members to Congress? We've    had people in high political office. When it happens again, the    next wave, some of the conflicts that we might suffer from    today will be irrelevant. It's important to hold on to that    fact and realize we're on a rocket ship trajectory and that    things that loom large today are going to seem insignificant in    two or three years.  
    Krieg: Do you envision DSA as being an organization that, as    time goes by and in addition to its advocacy, runs candidates    for as many offices as possible, or do you see more in the vein    of the Working Families Party, which might have a ballot line    but is fundamentally, electorally, is about providing support    and endorsements in primaries?  
    Lenchner: DSA is not a political party and that's an important    distinction. We are not on any ballot. Our sense is that    instead of committing ourselves to being a political party, we    have the freedom to run people within any political context    that makes sense. That might mean a nonpartisan election, like    they have in Seattle, it might mean inside a Democratic    primary, it could mean as a third party member -- all of these    options are open to us precisely because we are not a political    party. Becoming a party would constrain us. Instead, we get to    offer a hand to any alliance, any relationship where we think    we can advance a left agenda. That means forming coalitions    with other entities and it means creating in this country, for    the first time in many generations, entire constituencies that    are devoted to democratic socialism.  
    When you think of constituencies in American politics, people    often break it down by demographics. What do women of color    want? What do white seniors want? But imagine a world where, in    addition, you have ideological blocs that are saying, We're the    constituency for single-payer, we're the constituency for not    instigating disastrous wars in the Middle East -- creating    entire blocs of voters that hold firm to those principles --    and threaten any politician who disregards them.  
    That's what DSA, with a big boost from Bernie Sanders, is    bringing back to American politics.  
    Krieg: When we've spoken in the past, you tended to be either    advocating a policy or for a candidate. Building a political    organization is obviously not that. It's more abstract. Maybe    more difficult. You can't, as an example, paper over an    internal policy dispute with some beloved candidate. How is it    different?  
    Lenchner: Because DSA is, by design, a big tent organization,    it means that the more successful we are, the more competing    and cooperating strands there are going to be. So in an effort    like the Sanders campaign, you might work with unlikely allies,    but you have a mission. You are winning votes for one person.  
    When you're with an organization that has more than one school    of thought, you don't always have that one defining goal that    makes everyone line up and work together easily. In that sense,    we're probably going to have some of the dysfunctions of a    family, where we all come together for holidays but it doesn't    mean we don't fight. I don't know that this is a bad thing. And    it's not as though our counterparts in other places don't have    their own internal fights, as well.  
    I was thinking, even within the Trump White House, I can't    think of anyone at DSA talking about someone else at DSA    sucking their own c--k (A reference to Trump's now-former    communications director). We're just not there yet! And,    frankly, because we don't hold that much institutional power,    there is a great deal of good humor and patience that might not    exist if we were actually in control of levers of policy and    budgets in this country.  
    Krieg: There has been a dust-up, among DSA people and friends    of the movement, in recent weeks over Syria policy, a    particular blog post seemed to trigger it, and there is going    to be a vote on BDS (a movement to divest from and sanction    Israel) in Chicago. What do you think is the single most    pressing issue, politically, facing DSA now?  
    Lenchner: I wouldn't say "pressing," but I can tell you there    is clearly a spectrum where, on one side, you have people who    feel as though DSA has been a little bit too attached to    Democratic Party politics and their goal is to liberate DSA so    that it's more free to explore building power and competing    outside the framework of Democratic Party primaries or    supporting Democratic candidates.  
    And then, in contrast, you have other folks who are saying,    well, we don't think that the Green Party strategy is very    useful. We don't think that other socialist organizations that    have hovered on the margins have been especially successful. We    think that if the majority of working class voters are still    inside the Democratic Party, it makes sense for us to compete    there and make sure Republicans don't win.  
    But you have to remember that it's not two completely different    schools of thought. Even the people who are one side will still    concede that the other folks have a point and ought to win some    of the times. So, for example, there are very few Democratic    Party loyalists within DSA who aren't perfectly fine working    with the Working Families Party, which is in fact a third    party. Or that aren't supportive of efforts to back someone    like (Seattle city council member) Kshama Sawant, who belongs    to a rival organization (called Socialist Alternative), but    clearly has earned broad left support. And on the other side,    even the folks who have more of an affinity to third parties, I    haven't heard anyone say that working for Bernie Sanders was a    mistake. Not a single one.  
    We live with these contradictions in a much more intense    ideological way and that's something that, for instance,    regular Democratic Party politics doesn't have to concern    itself with.  
    Krieg: Do you expect the measure to support BDS will pass?  
    Lenchner: Yes. By an 80% margin.  
    Krieg: Which brings us back to the Democratic Party. You're    talking about keeping a foot inside the tent. BDS is not looked    upon too kindly by many liberals. Democratic leaders in    Washington have their names on a bill that would effectively    criminalize it. How do you manage those channels -- do you try?  
    Lenchner: The truth is that, most young people, don't have that    loyalty to the traditional politics of supporting Israel, right    or wrong. Because DSA is made up largely of young people who    don't need to worry about fundraising goals for the DNC, they    don't need to worry about Chuck Schumer's fundraising for the    DSCC -- why shouldn't they support policies that are much more    critical of Israel? There is literally nothing institutionally    to prevent them from going to the mat for something like    Palestinian human rights. There is just no barrier to that.  
    Palestine is a wedge issue on the left. It is a convenient    marker. As in, "Are you really on the left? Show it by    supporting BDS. Oh, you won't do that? Well, you're not really    a leftist." BDS is a litmus test -- not that consequential at    this point -- for an organization that is trying to assert    itself as "not-the Democratic Party." It's not as if DSA is    suddenly becoming an organization primarily focused on foreign    policy.  
    Krieg: When you announced you would be running, there was a    line that caught my eye -- you say you want to "professionalize    the management of DSA." Given the scorn so many progressives,    and certainly leftists, have for professional consultants in    politics, how do you go about making this argument with people    who instinctively reject it?  
    Lenchner: First of all, let me be clear: I adore the current    staff. But they are going to expand and change to meet the    needs of a growing organization.  
    When I was younger, I was lucky enough to be taken to    Scandinavia, to places like Sweden and Denmark, and I found    there that the government and various other entities fund youth    organizations where the people in charge are young people --    high school and college students -- but the staff are adults    who have been working there for years. And it was clear that    the hierarchy was that the staff was under the control of these    elected student bodies. I thought it was great. The young    people are in charge! But when it comes to filing your taxes or    making sure the payroll happens on time, why wouldn't you have    people who do that for a living be the ones doing it?  
    In the same way, DSA needs to focus on being a participatory    democratic organization, but things like making sure    fundraising letters are sent, or making sure that internal    elections are done properly, or providing support for programs    -- that's the kind of stuff that I feel like there's a division    of labor among people who have specific job functions and the    organization as a whole, which is made to function politically.    But that expertise is not well distributed or made available at    the chapter level. And in some ways, the left sometimes has a    hard time drawing a line between those two things.  
    I'm not certain that the person who is making sure people renew    their membership dues has to be motivated by pure socialist    principles. I'd like them to be motivated by what the    percentage of membership renewals.  
    Krieg: So we're a little more than six months into Trump's time    in office. DSA grew in his wake. Where do you want the    organization to be in three and a half or so years, as the    country is going back to the polls in November of 2020?  
    Lenchner: I don't know if I have a direct answer. I think that    socialists are more likely to be impactful in local elections.    The situation we had with Bernie in 2016 is kind of unique. I'd    point out this: There is always going to be a conflict within    the Democratic Party between people who want things like    single-payer and other folks who are focused on fundraising and    making peace with corporate interests that are more aligned    with Democrats. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's a    fact of life in our political system. What's new is that there    hadn't been as many organizations mobilizing the left side of    that equation and being able to do it by raising small dollar    donations, enough that can actually compete with the big money    that comes from PACs and wealthy individuals.  
    That's new and that constituency isn't just DSA, bravely alone    waving a red flag, that's a whole sector -- that's Our    Revolution, that's (new Our Revolution president and former    Ohio state senator) Nina Turner, that's unions who supported    Sanders, that's people like Kshama Sawant in Seattle. DSA is    one component in the growth of larger left impacting American    politics.  
    And that sector is now able to exert so much power we're seeing    Cory Booker try to legalize marijuana at the federal level?    Seeing folks like Kamala Harris rhetorically endorse    single-payer? We're basically seeing a massive shift of    otherwise mainstream Democrats bend over backwards to use the    words and the policy positions of people that are far to their    left -- and they're doing it because we actually have the    gravitational pull for a change.  
    Just imagine where that will take us after DSA spends a few    years capacity-building and learning the skills and knowing the    differences between voter file software and how to manage    active canvassing campaigns. Once we get that better mastered,    I think you're going to see the number of openly socialist    candidates holding office rise from less than 100 to many    thousands, as was the case in the heyday of the Socialist    Party.  
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