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Given the polarization of the American electorate, one might wonder if bipartisan civil discourse is still possible.

Former North Dakota U.S. Sen. Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat, and former North Dakota Gov. Ed Schafer, a Republican, have been in the political trenches for years. And they say not only is that kind of old-style, decent conversation possible, its necessary.

The two recently hosted a free talk at Concordia College in Moorhead to encourage people to break out of a cycle of cultural divisions, public outrage and mistrust. They talked with MPR News host Cathy Wurzer as part of our Talking Sense project, which helps Minnesotans have better political conversations.

This conversation has been edited for clarity and style. Click on the audio player for the full interview.

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Schafer: Theres so much political rancor today. When this opportunity came up, it made a lot of sense since Sen. Heitkamp, then Attorney General Heitcamp, and I worked together in the Capitol for the people of North Dakota and focused on getting something done for the people.

Heitkamp: Well, let me tell you what Im seeing, because I spend a lot of time with students. Im currently the director of the Institute of Politics in Chicago. And what I hear from students is they dont want to be involved in politics.

They think its a mean business, they think you have to hate the person on the other side. And my concern is theyve not experienced the kind of relationship that Gov. Schafer and I had when we were both in state government. And Im not saying it was always Kumbaya, but we figured out how to get along and actually have fun on many occasions.

Im hoping we can model that and tell people: You dont have to buy into the rancor, you can conduct yourself differently. And that means that you can run for office, you can engage in public service.

Heitkamp: I think youre always going to have the 20 to 30 percent that are the loudest, and they get the most airtime. Then the people in the middle say, just get your job done. I think that were just listening to people who see the opposition as the enemy, and not as an opponent that needs to be listened to.

Schafer: I think that the difficult thing is to separate that public policy discussion from the political discussions. If you focus on the public policy, its good. If you want to develop something thats best for the people, you have to understand the humaneness of all this.

Its just not someone that youre fighting with over politics theres a real person there. We need to get out of our cubicles, get off of social media. Community is built with a handshake and a hug, and a slap on the back.

We have to bring people together face to face, which then allows you to understand youre both human beings, youre both caring, you both arrive at your conclusions in a good way. And they might be different. But that doesnt mean theyre wrong.

Heitkamp: The advice that I give people when they say, so and so is mad at me, or, this person is my political opponent, and they go, what should I do? I say, go to some event that theyre at and stand next to them. Because its really hard to be that mad at somebody who is right there.

The other advice I would give to young people is: It doesnt have to be that way. Dont get caught up in other peoples ideas of how you should conduct your business. Live your values, and then even if it doesnt work out, if you dont get reelected, you hold your head up high and you figure out another way to be of service.

Schafer: There are many, many people out there who are models of good public servants. The problem is we dont see them. The media focuses on the bad folks and the rancor and the angst.

Heitkamp: There are people like Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, who was behind every major piece of legislation that passed, whether it was CHIPS, whether it was the Inflation Reduction Act. She frustrated a lot of more progressive Democrats, but yet she was in the arena, working to get things done. I dont know that the infrastructure bill would have happened without her.

On the other side, theres a guy named Sen. Todd Young. To Eds point, youve not heard of him. And probably the best example I can give people is Sen. Patty Murray, from Washington. And Sen. Susan Collins literally led the appropriations committee and got almost unanimous support for the 12 funding bills, but that didnt get focused on.

All of the rancor gets focused on. There are people who are doing the work. There are unsung heroes, and I have to say, I would throw Sen. Amy Klobuchar into that mix.

Heitkamp: You love the people in your life, the people who are in your family. Dont let a political belief, for voting for one side or the other, dont let them separate you. And talk less, listen more. Thats always a good piece of advice. My dad used to say, God gave you one mouth and two ears and that you should use them proportionally.

Schafer: We take this stuff much too seriously. You got to have this belief that we have a great system, that its going to work out, that were resilient, that we can have hope out there, that things move forward.

You know, that this is a discussion to have, theres differences of opinion. But you know, its not the most important thing in the history of the world. Focus on your family and your care and your love for each other and have civil good conversations.

For a recording of the event, go to http://www.lorentzsencenter.com.

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A Republican and a Democrat make the case for civility in politics - MPR News

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The head of the House Democratic Caucus suggested Wednesday that Democratic lawmakers stand ready to rescue Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) from a potential GOP coup  if he ushers Ukraine aid through the lower chamber and on to President Biden’s desk. 

Rep. Pete Aguilar (D-Calif.) stopped short of saying he would vote personally to save Johnson from a motion to vacate resolution. But echoing an earlier message from House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.), Aguilar noted a number of Democrats are already on record saying they’d help keep Johnson in power if he stages a vote on the Ukraine package that passed through the Senate in February.

That willingness by Democrats to cross the aisle, Aguilar suggested, should be enough to overcome the number of Republicans who might try to topple Johnson.

“The Speaker needs to put that bill on the floor,” Aguilar said during a press briefing in the Capitol. “You have also heard me say, you have also heard Leader Jeffries say and he has pointed out that it was an observation, not a declaration that we feel that if the Speaker does the right thing that he is in a good position.

“But look, we’ve got to do the right thing. We’ve got to pass these bills. We’ve got to have some sanity under this dome. And that means putting bills on the floor that have 300 votes.”

The comments arrive as Johnson is scrambling for a strategy to move a Ukraine package though the lower chamber, where conservatives in his conference are ardently opposed to sending billions of dollars more to Kyiv. Some of those critics want to secure the U.S. border first. Others want assurances that the costs will be covered by changes elsewhere in the budget, so they don’t add to the debt. And still others, like Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.), simply oppose the concept of Ukraine aid, saying it would only prolong a war that’s already a lost cause.

Greene has already introduced a resolution to vacate the Speakership, and although she has so far opted not to force a vote on the measure, she’s strongly suggested she’ll do so if Johnson puts a Ukraine bill on the floor. 

Funding Ukraine is probably one of the most egregious things that he can do, Greene told CNN last week.

It’s unclear how many other Republicans would support Greene’s motion if she forces it to the floor.

A number of conservatives are already furious with Johnson for cutting a deal with Biden last month to fund the government. And many are also up in arms over Johnson’s endorsement of legislation to extend the government’s domestic surveillance powers. But no Republican has come out publicly in support of Greene’s vacate resolution.

Aguilar said he doesn’t know of any direct talks between Johnson and Democratic lawmakers over the potential vote a conversation he said is best left between the Speaker and Jeffries. 

“If the Speaker wants to have a conversation with Leader Jeffries about that, that is where the discussion should be had,” Aguilar said. “Members want to see the Speaker do the right thing. House Democratic members want to see the Speaker put this bill on the floor so we can send it to the president’s desk so we can deliver the important aid to Ukraine. 

“That’s what we want done.”

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Top Democrat says Johnson in good position to remain Speaker if he stages Ukraine vote - The Hill

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Poll: One Democrat emerges as favorite to challenge Rep. Brandon Williams  syracuse.com

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Poll: One Democrat emerges as favorite to challenge Rep. Brandon Williams - syracuse.com

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Sandra Feist and Kristin Robbins sat behind a desk in a state Capitol committee hearing room, preparing to tell a panel of their colleagues about their bill requiring schools to have student cell phone policies.

They were working together on the bill despite the vast political gulf between them: Feist is an immigration attorney and progressive state representative from New Brighton who sponsors bills that would, for example, make Minnesota a sanctuary for undocumented immigrants.

Robbins is former executive director of the Economic Club of Minnesota and a Maple Grove representative who sponsors pro-police bills aimed, for instance, at progressive Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty.

At the hearing, their appearance broadcast their different vibes: Feist looked ready for a show at First Ave: bright pink lipstick, cat-eyed glasses, her trademark swath of red dyed hair atop a pixie haircut and a loose, white V-neck shirt and dark jacket. Robbins was more business luncheon ready: She donned a Rachel-style blowout, subdued pink lipstick, a dress shirt, black suit jacket and gold jewelry.

But their smiles matched perfectly. And most important: Theyre both mothers concerned about cell phones and kids.

They get it: The countrys partisan polarization, including its at-times violent, dehumanizing rhetoric, has landed at the Minnesota Capitol, and Republicans and Democrats dont often pair up to try to get bills passed.

But Feist and Robbins got to know each other through the Civility Caucus, where a handful of Republicans and Democrats regularly gather and try to get beyond politics through lunches, happy hours and hot dish cookoffs.

Thats how Feist and Robbins discovered they share a concern about cell phones in schools, and ended up co-sponsoring the bill (HF4581/SF4749). It requires the Minnesota School Boards Association to develop a model policy on student cell phone use by Dec. 15, and requires school boards to adopt policies by March 15.

In the process, Feist and Robins forged a genuine relationship.

We really enjoy talking to each other, Robbins said. We both care about bipartisan relationships. Its really about the building of relationships so you know each other as colleagues so that when it comes to the hard negotiations, you can sit down and trust each other.

The Civility Caucus is chaired by two lawmakers from the House and Senate, one Republican and one Democrat: This session, the House chairs are Robbins and Feist, and Senate chairs are Republican Zach Duckworth and Democrat Grant Hauschild.

Feist is a lawyer, but not oppositional: She likes to turn the temperature down.

It hit her one day while leaving the Capitol: All those lawmakers riding the elevator and getting in cars to go home were her coworkers. It reminded her of the Looney Tunes characters Ralph the Wolf and Sam the Sheepdog, who clocked in for work each day, fought like hell, and then amicably clocked out and went home.

It is our job to represent our constituents values. And so I feel like Im able to have a sense of emotional distance to say, you know, I might not agree with (them) but it is their job to come here and reflect their communitys values, Feist said.

One of the unintended consequences of barring lobbyists from buying lawmakers dinners is that they dont get together as often, she said.

Meanwhile, the debate you see on the House and Senate floor is theater, Feist said.

Were expected to be colorful and interesting. I would prefer to be boring. Id prefer for everyone not be interested in my bills, Feist said. I really like the nerdy, technical work of legislating.

At Civility Caucus gatherings, conversation might go to hot-button issues, but the conversations are much more productive, she said.

I think ultimately we make better law when we can hear one anothers perspective, Feist said. I legitimately enjoy the company of people who I disagree with on most things.

For example?

I really like Pat Garofalo, she said. Hes a traditional, pre-Trump Republican. We dont have a lot of the same political opinions, but weve worked together on things and I always enjoy having an exchange of perspectives and hearing his take on things.

Robbins joined the caucus her freshman year, in 2019.

It was a great way to get to know colleagues that you normally would never encounter, she said.

Outside of committee colleagues, she said, lawmakers have very little time to get to know each other, especially those in the other chamber.

Were all just running 100 miles per hour, Robbins said. It just really brings people together over a meal where you just sit by someone you never met and just start talking.

And thats how they learn they have a lot in common, from caring for children, to caring for aging parents.

Were all in this together and were all trying to accomplish good for the state and see that people are well, even if we have significant policy disagreements, Robbins said.

Robbins worked for the late Harris Fawell, an Illinois Republican congressman, and former U.S. Rep. Tim Penny, a Minnesota Democrat, on the bipartisan Porkbusters Coalition, which exposed lawmakers pet pork projects. She and Penny founded the nonpartisan Economic Club of Minnesota.

So when it came to the Civility Caucus, I didnt think twice, Robbins said. Ive always been someone whos tried to build relationships across the aisle.

The caucus is even more necessary now that the DFL controls both chambers and has less need to work with Republicans, she said. In the recent past, Minnesotans have elected divided government, and the parties had to work together.

Former state DFL Rep. JoAnn Ward of Lake Elmo founded the Civility Caucus in 2017.

I sat on the House floor and listened to grandstanding and pontificating and people speaking to the camera and thought: This is not effective government. We could do so much better, Ward said. Theres just so much time wasted.

Ward is a former teacher with a background in organizational development who has long focused on getting people to work together. Shes a fiscal conservative, social liberal. When she first pitched the idea of bringing Republicans and Democrats together, people thought it was crazy.

Here I am, this little freshman. Ageism is real. Its really powerful now at the Capitol. The men would say, Honey, things dont work that way, Ward said.

About a half dozen lawmakers showed up at the first meetings many of them her friends and they began holding lunches every month or two. Sometimes they helped pack food at shelters or spent a day at a shelter.

When she was campaigning, people would often ask Ward why Republicans and Democrats cant just get along. The Civility Caucus gave her an answer.

I could say, This is what Im doing about that, Ward said.

Hauschild got involved with the caucus soon after getting elected to the Senate in 2022.

I consider myself to be a pretty moderate, middle-of-the-road legislator, he said. Its really just a great, great way to meet a lot of folks across the aisle, and folks within your own caucus or in the other house in kind of a non-pressurized, non-political way.

You might still adamantly disagree on policy or in committee or on the floor, but you kind of see their humanity, Hauschild said.

He used to work for former North Dakota U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp, a moderate Democrat who worked across the aisle with former Sens. Bob Corker of Tennessee and the late John McCain. So he set out to do the same: He and two Republican senators flew around the North Shore and Duluth together on a Cirrus jet which are manufactured in Hauschilds district.

Hauschild represents a very rural district, and shares a lot of issues with rural Republicans. He said hes forged a good policy relationship with Republican Sen. Jordan Rasmusson of Fergus Falls, who represents an area where Hauschilds grandparents had a lake cabin. Theyve worked together on outdoor education funding, hatcheries, and boat landings.

While Feist allows that many in the caucus are who youd expect, e.g., moderates, some seemingly partisan lawmakers, like Republican Sen. Mark Koran, who once ran for state party chair, have been members, too. Koran is a former co-chair of the Civility Caucus. He knows people think hes a radical conservative, but says he has broader views on children, people with disabilities, and the elderly.

Thats actually the reason I did it: To challenge peoples views or perception (of) not just who I am, but who Republicans are, Koran said. If youre just willing to have a conversation, you can find agreement on a whole pile of issues.

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In the Legislature's Civility Caucus, Republicans and Democrats actually like talking to each other Minnesota Reformer - Minnesota Reformer

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Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-N.Y.), the ranking member on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in an early Tuesday interview that he does not think Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) would be removed from his post if he puts the Ukraine supplemental aid package on the floor for a vote.

Meeks said on on “CNN News Central” that he thinks enough Democrats would join with Republicans to save Johnson if Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) follows through on her threat to force an ouster vote.

“I think so, in talking to some of my colleagues on the Republican side, and even some on the Democratic side,” Meeks said on whether Johnson would keep his job if Greene forces a vote on his ouster.

“As long as we are able to put the supplemental on the floor and vote to make sure that Ukraine gets the resources that it needs, he should not be removed for that. In my estimation, I don’t think he will,” Meeks continued.

House lawmakers are arriving in Capitol Hill on Tuesday following a two-week holiday recess. Before legislators returned to their districts in late March, Greene filed a motion to vacate the Speaker’s chair, threatening a vote against Johnson.

Throughout the recess period, Greene has not backed down from her demands, warning Johnson against any floor action on Ukraine aid. Johnson has pledged to put Ukraine aid on the floor for a vote when Congress returns from recess, but has not laid out what that package would look like.

As Johnson faces growing pressure from the far-right flank of his party that has come out against Ukraine aid, some Democrats have floated the possibility of voting to keep Johnson in power if Greene forces a motion to vacate.

When former Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) faced a motion to vacate, Democrats opted against saving his Speakership. With such a slim GOP majority, that meant just a handful of Republicans had the power to remove McCarthy from power by joining with Democrats in favor of the motion oust him.

Now, however, some Democrats are signaling the calculus might be different, as they’ve tried for months to get Ukraine aid through without success.

Meeks said Tuesday that if the House Democratic leader, Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (N.Y.), asks him to save Johnson, he would do so.

“Yeah. Hakeem’s the leader,” he said. “But you know, and I can tell you from my position I know how urgent it is to get the aid into Ukraine and to get it there now. It needed to be there yesterday. And so that’s what’s important.”

“So it’s got to be the Senate’s bill that has already passed,” he added, noting that any revisions to the bill that the Senate already passed would only add more time before it gets to the president’s desk.

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Top Foreign Affairs Democrat says he doesnt think Johnson will be ousted for Ukraine vote - The Hill

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